Need some input on 5-way HSH selector positions

[Patriot54]

I'm trying to decide how to set up the selector positions on my H-S-H with a 5-way switch. It's 24-inch scale length with an ash body and mahogany neck - very warm-sounding but loud when played unplugged.

How would you wire this and why? I have no reference to decide whether to blend or split certain pickups in this setup.

Here's the specs:
neck - DiMarzio D-Activator (humbucker) http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/humbuckers/high-power/d-activator-neck
middle - DiMarzio Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues 2 (noiseless single coil) http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/strat/hum-canceling-strat/virtual-vintage-heavy-blues-2
bridge - DiMarzio Super 3 (humbucker) http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/humbuckers/high-power/super-3

And here's the guitar in question:
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=21701.0

 

[DavyDave53]

Do all of the pickups have 4 wires?

 

[Patriot54]

Do all of the pickups have 4 wires?

The middle one has 2 wires

 

[DavyDave53]

There are many options to consider.  It's really just a matter of how complex do to you want it.

http://www.dimarzio.com/support/wiring-diagrams#1-5-8-3

 

[pabloman]

My favorite three pickup wiring is out of a Black Beauty. Bridge/Middle-Neck/Neck. Everything else is just over kill.

 

[Cagey]

I like to keep things very simple with just a single volume and tone, but you've already got three pots on there so I'd wire it as if it were a Strat...

I know your neck and bridge p'ups are humbuckers, but that doesn't matter. You can still use the above diagram. Just use the hot & neutral from each p'up, and leave the series connection free.

Later on if it's making you crazy, you can put a push-pull pot or two in there to coil cut your humbuckers. You probably won't like it, but you also don't have to use it if you don't.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

The face that you only have two wires from the middle pickup means you can't split it to form a hum-cancelling pair with one coil from one of your humbuckers. So what I would do is use Cagey's diagram from above (ie regular Strat wiring), but use two push/pull pots to modify the bridge and neck humbuckers.

Just a regular split results in a bit of a "nothing" sound with a lot of humbuckers, so I would do one of the following:

1. "Fat split" - you wire a normal coil split, except instead of running the series link straight to ground, you connect it to one leg of a .01uF capacitor, and the other leg of that cap to ground. It gives a chunkier single-coil sound that's still (mostly) hum-cancelling.

2. Parallel - you just change the wiring of the humbucker from series to parallel when you pull the pot out. It thins, brightens and reduces volume much like a regular split, but stays hum cancelling and is a little chunkier than one coil of a humbucker alone.

If you use Duncan wiring diagrams for any of this, remember to translate the colours through here:

 

[Patriot54]

I should have mentioned that the guitar will have one master volume, one master tone and the 5-way selector (rotary) - the keep it simple approach works for me. I'm mostly a rhythm player, really don't touch the controls mid-song, I rarely turn the tone to full treble, and don't like push-pull pots. The reason I chose to build a 3-pickup guitar is to have a variety of sounds for recording and to switch it up for different songs. Does it make sense to have an H-S-H configuration with only master controls and 5 positions?  :dontknow:

Given those guidelines, can I still do the "fat split" on one or both of the humbuckers, or would that require the pickup to have it's own tone control? If I can do it, I could consider having Position 2 be fat split and Position 4 be blended with the single coil (or vice versa).

edit: Also, I definitely want to have Position 1 to be bridge only, 3 to be middle only, and 5 to be neck only because I want to find out how they all sound on their own.

 

[Cagey]

The diagram I showed above will give you the selections you're asking for...

[list type=decimal]
[*]Bridge
[*]Bridge + Middle
[*]Middle
[*]Middle + Neck
[*]Neck
[/list]

...but, it's obviously using a blade switch rather than a rotary. Given a rotary switch's schematic, I'm sure we could modify that diagram to suit.

As for tone control, a single control will work for any pickup arrangement you can wire up. It's simply a low pass filter in parallel with the output. Any signal no matter how derived or switched ahead of it is going to get the same treatment.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

If you're using a 5-position, 4-pole switch like this one then you can do pretty much anything you want.

What do you want in positions 2 and 4? You can split either or both pickups (including fat split) and do any combination of active pickups.

 

[Cagey]

I wish they sold those with longer mounting shafts. At 3/8", you can't really use them on carved tops very easily.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Hmm, good point. I guess it's never going to affect me much, I don't like rotary switches!

I'd be interested to try the varitone idea though.

 

[Cagey]

I'm not a big fan of the rotary switches, either. But, some people like them, and if you're aren't changing pickups all the time while playing, I can see it being a useful solution.

 

[Patriot54]

Thanks to everyone for all the info - I think I'll end up combining the pickups at the 2 and 4 positions rather than splitting either of the humbuckers. After getting some advice here and listening to a few sound samples on YouTube, splitting them seems like a thinner sound that I don't have any use for.

As for the rotary switch, I also had an issue with the length of the switch shaft, and this was on a flat top body (Warmoth blank slab). I ended up cutting a recess for it on the inside of the control cavity. It should definitely be a little longer by about 1/10th inch - I don't see how it's practical for any style of guitar. The only reason I chose that switch to begin with was because I didn't think a blade switch would look good on my custom design and I didn't want to cut the recess and slot. In the end, I still had to do the same amount of work to get the rotary in there.

 

[Cagey]

That's a very old switch design, and it wasn't originally designed for guitars. It's a panel mount, which means it would rarely see anything thicker than 1/8" it would have to mount through. On a guitar, that would be a pickguard, not a body hole.