Neck mounting strength

[sea-monster]

So I'm thinking about building a custom body with a Warmoth neck and have a question about the amount of body wood needed to make for a secure neck joint. I like the way it looks when there's not much overlap of the fretboard onto the body of a Rickenbacker 330.

Rickenbackers have set necks, I believe, and I'm curious to know if I can create a similar look with a bolt on neck. Fender guitars, which use bolt on necks, look to have a bit more body wood bracing the sides of the neck.

I've made an image below to show the difference between a Fender Jazzmaster and the design I'm working on. As you can see, the custom design on top has far less body wood touching the sides than the Jazzmaster. They both would have the same surface area on the back for the neck mounting plate.

Does anyone have a good idea if I could do such a thing with a bolt on neck?

Extra Credit: If it *is* secure enough, could I make a contoured heel on the body as well?

 

[Nightclub Dwight]

The old Warmoth V's had very little material on the sides of the neck.  So as long as you have enough room to fully accommodate the bolt neck mounting pocket--that is 4 solid screw holes into the neck--you should be ok.  Contoured heel should be good to go as well.

Check the Warmoth site and be sure your design will accommodate their neck heel.

I am not speaking from experience however since I play a telecaster.

 

[stratamania]

You could do it and do the contoured heel but is it a good idea ?

Personally I would not recommend it as the neck would be difficult to align, you would Be relying only on screws or bolts if you used threaded inserts to not only hold the neck to the body but also prevent any lateral movement as there would be next to no support from the body.

No support of course  is different from little support as mentioned regarding Flying V shapes.

If you were going to make a neck also you could do a variation of a Stephens extended cutaway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washburn_N4

 

[Ace Flibble]

With bolt-ons it really doesn't matter how much wood you have around the sides. The join comes from the four big screws passing through part of the back of the guitar and into the heel of the neck. Nothing else makes a difference. You can look up pictures of the double-cut Les Paul bodies Warmoth used to make for examples of how a bolt-on without much wood on the sides works.

If you wanted to actually convert the neck to some sort of set neck, like the Rickenbacker, you're going to have a lot of trouble and the join won't be secure at all. With set necks you need to have either enough wood around the sides to make the join secure or you need the heel of the neck to extend much further into the body, which is referred to as the neck tenon. The neck of the Rickenbacker, for instance, actually extends past the neck pickup. This is also how Gibson make their instruments, too, even with Les Pauls which already have a lot of wood around the sides of the heel.

There was somebody on here who did manage to make a set neck out of a Warmoth neck, but as I recall they didn't use a body with such a drastic double cut design.

 

[Cagey]

Mr. Flibble is correct. A bolt-on neck is essentially a lap joint, and it's nowhere near strong enough to do the glue trick. You need a dovetail or a mortise/tenon to pull that off, and there's just no way to get there from here. Machine screws will do a good job, but then you end up with the heftier neck joint.

I don't know much about that Ricky, but it looks sorta like the joint Gibson uses on their SGs and Melody Makers. Very very weak. Any major dude will tell you, you're begging for a break. Just grab it the wrong way and you're liable to snap it. Plus, they don't want to tune. It's just too flimsy of a joint.

 

[sea-monster]

OK, so it seems like the consensus is: as long as there's a sufficient amount of body wood to bolt the neck to, it should be sturdy enough. The only thing to be careful of is proper alignment since it will be trickier without side support.

Ideally, I would be able to find a neck with some extra length that I could use to make a set neck, kind of like this:

I'm guessing Warmoth wouldn't be willing to leave on some extra wood; any idea where I could find a through neck like this?

 

[Cagey]

Warmoth does a lot of things that aren't catalog items/procedures. You have to call and ask. The guys that answer the phones are very knowledgeable, so you won't waste a lot of time finding out what you need to know.

However, I've never seen them provide a neck like that. They cut the things on a CNC machine, so if the program isn't in there, you ain't getting it.

You might want to consider Carvin's neck-thru styles. They're very reasonably-priced, and of a high quality. See here. You'll have to cut out the body yourself, or have it done, but you'd get what you want.

 

[Kostas]

...I any idea where I could find a through neck like this?

http://www.soulmateguitars.com/Necks.htm

 

[mayfly]

For a (Very) short time, Warmoth used to offer rick style bodies using bolt on necks.  They worked just fine... until the lawyers got involved.

I think you'd be fine with a traditional bolt on neck with the neck 'pocket' extending proud of the body.  If you were extra paranoid, you could use threaded inserts in the neck and machine screws instead of wood screws.

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

For a (Very) short time, Warmoth used to offer rick style bodies using bolt on necks.

Hmm... are there any pics of such machines?  What kind of Ricks, like 330, 620, or 4003?

 

[mayfly]

For a (Very) short time, Warmoth used to offer rick style bodies using bolt on necks.

Hmm... are there any pics of such machines?  What kind of Ricks, like 330, 620, or 4003?

The pic that I saw (a Warmoth ad in guitar player magazine) was 330 style with binding.  very nice.

I think the actual bodies were destroyed before they could even sell any.  Maybe there is a prototype lurking around, but sadly I think that's it.

Anyway, I don't think you'll have a problem with the neck joint.