My "proof" against tonewood!

[Cederick]

So... I was bored yesterday and I got an instant idea! I had a stripped Kramer Striker and other parts around to complete it...

The result?!

Okay think about it! It's a PLYWOOD body, with scred on PARTICLEBOARD and than a hardtail with 3 PLASTIC SHIMS under all saddels (because I didn't think twice when routing out the Floyd cavity).

Wouldn't that make for the most sustain-less guitar ever?! Actually no!

Now I'm not trying to be like "this is the best guitar ever" because it's not, but actually this guitar had one of the worst sustains I've ever played with the original bridge on this guitar (a super crappy Floyd Rose). After screwing on this baseplate and hardtail this one sings just as well as my other guitars I have or have had.

(My worst guitar sustain/tonewise is a actually guitar with Warmoth strat neck and a no-name basswood SSS strat body. I need to change that body to see if it's going to make it sing more, because right now I'm really dissatisfied with that build. It's not the neck, because I used to have that neck on a Evertune strat body (from Warmoth too) which sounded quite nice, but sustained little because of the Evertune bridge)


And sorry, but I didn't record the sound at the moment of the video, so there's no REAL "proof" in my thread, which is why I have the quote signs.  What I'm saying is that even with nice parts (my SSS strat for example) it can sound dull and sustainless, and with really low-level parts (like this build) it can sound very nice. You never know until it's put together. You can predict certain factors (like some people avoiding Callaham parts because of the trebly steel sound).

My Fenders and all-Warmoth DO sound better than this one, but this pile of crap still sustains better than my Fender HM Strat.  :toothy12:

VIDEO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jomwBtjiI5A&feature=youtu.be

 

[Cederick]

I'm using an Engl e530 amp with IR cabs, and while that amp is very high gain it still let's the guitars "personal sound" go through. I've played guitars through it that DO sound bad, so I'm not making it up when I'm saying I do find the sound of this Kramer sound good.

Because it DID SOUND AWFUL before changing from the crappy Floyd bridge to this.


I could record this guitar more"professionaly" in comparison to another guitar later on (even tho I have no other guitars with this exact pickup)

 

[sp1keym1key]

Hi Cederick.

Just checked out your video. Nice playing! I quite literally just posted my first topic on this forum, and I mentioned about possibly installing an Evertune bridge on a Tele I'm building. My reasons against it was that I didn't want to remove so much wood because I was worried about the tone being effected. Some people claim that wood on an electric guitar does not affect tone. A claim that I'm still on the fence about. But your claim is very compelling!

What's your opinions on the Evertune bridge since you have experience using it?

Michael.

 

[DocNrock]

Firstly, nice playing!  Now, a couple of questions.  What pickup is in that guitar?  The other is that you refer to a crappy Floyd Rose that was in it previously.  Was the trem a Floyd copy, or an original Floyd?  Thanks. :rock-on:

 

[Cederick]

Hi Cederick.

Just checked out your video. Nice playing! I quite literally just posted my first topic on this forum, and I mentioned about possibly installing an Evertune bridge on a Tele I'm building. My reasons against it was that I didn't want to remove so much wood because I was worried about the tone being effected. Some people claim that wood on an electric guitar does not affect tone. A claim that I'm still on the fence about. But your claim is very compelling!

What's your opinions on the Evertune bridge since you have experience using it?

Michael.

Thanks man!  :glasses9:

I did sell the Evertune stuff, because it didn't cut it for me. I don't know if it was the body (made by Warmoth so it should be really good) but I think it was the bridge, basically. It sounds alright, but once I started playing really fast tremolo picking like speed and thrash metal it just wasn't "defined" enough. No matter if I had Super Distortion, EMG 81 or that Starstruck custom, I tried them all. The EMG 81 sounded "best" because it had better pick attacks, but EMG 81s are generally very bassless so it wasn't a good combo with the "toneless" bridge. The Starstruck custom sounded best in that, but wasn't the sound for what I wanted.

Also, the Evertune even intonates better than regular guitars! Which actually is NOT a good thing, because then other guitars sounds like crap if played at the same time. Also, it doesn't work very well with bass. I had to use AUTOTUNE on the bass tracks for an album I recorded with Evertune...  :toothy12:

Evertune + Evertune BASS would be really sweet tho!

Firstly, nice playing!  Now, a couple of questions.  What pickup is in that guitar?  The other is that you refer to a crappy Floyd Rose that was in it previously.  Was the trem a Floyd copy, or an original Floyd?  Thanks. :rock-on:

Thanks a lot :icon_thumright:

It's a Starstruck humbucker, custom ordered by Peter Naglitsch (http://peternaglitschluthier.com) which sounds very good, but can't use it in my main guitars because it's quite "scooped" compared to pickups like EMG 81 and Razor THT which I also like. But with this guitar I wanna play downtuned metal and the Starstruck is just perfect.

It's VERY similar to Duncan Distortion, but has less high-end fizzle. I did a comparison in my main guitar with Razor THT vs Duncan Distortion vs Starstruck and at first I thought the Starstruck was the best and cleanest, but I later found the mid-heavy Razor to be the best.

Oh and the floyd on the Kramer was THIS single locking piece of garbage:

I only use OFR and Gotoh Floyds because they are the best. I prefer Gotoh Floyd and will continue with that bridge on all Floyd guitars, I've tried it in a couple of guitars already but I don't have any of them anymore...

 

[DocNrock]

Wow, odd looking Floyd.  It has the name stamped in it, but it looks like it's die cast.  Weird. 

 

[Cederick]

They are truly awful! But I DO like the idea of just inserting the strings into the saddles like that, not having to cut ball ends and tinker around every time a string change. But these are not worth getting at all. I got this Kramer for free, I wouldn't pay a dollar for one.

Keep in mind this was a Striker, Kramers low-level guitars, with plywood bodies and all kinds of crappy hardware and electronics.

The neck is decent and stiff, but has a slight warp towards the headstock on the treble side.

 

[dmraco]

nice job.  I would agree to a point about wood.  All things equal, it does help shape the tone and different combos lend them self to different players and styles.    Sustain is a factor of your set up (crappy floyd or not). 

I (my son) recently build a Frankenstein EVH replica  It was a POS plywood body caked in resin.  The floyd I installed was purchased on Guitar Fetish for $29.  The best piece of the guitar is a Duncan JB pickup.  WOW.

After some time shimming the neck and tweaking that thing....AMAZING! 

I am a believer that pick ups and the amps make up about 80% of your tone.  The other 20% is based on the wood and player.  I am sure there are others that would disagree but that is the nice thing about opinions...everyone can have one!!

I usually buy wood for the aesthetics I am trying to accomplish.  I use alder for solid colors because it does not need grain fill.  Thats the sole reason.

 

[DocNrock]

They are truly awful! But I DO like the idea of just inserting the strings into the saddles like that, not having to cut ball ends and tinker around every time a string change. But these are not worth getting at all. I got this Kramer for free, I wouldn't pay a dollar for one.

Keep in mind this was a Striker, Kramers low-level guitars, with plywood bodies and all kinds of crappy hardware and electronics.

The neck is decent and stiff, but has a slight warp towards the headstock on the treble side.

Kramer did make some killer stuff back in the late 80s/(very)early 90s.  I had a Stagemaster Custom I that I foolishly sold.  Played many gigs with that guitar.  Neck-through, REAL Floyd Rose, and sustain for days!

 

[Cederick]

nice job.  I would agree to a point about wood.  All things equal, it does help shape the tone and different combos lend them self to different players and styles.    Sustain is a factor of your set up (crappy floyd or not). 

I (my son) recently build a Frankenstein EVH replica  It was a POS plywood body caked in resin.  The floyd I installed was purchased on Guitar Fetish for $29.  The best piece of the guitar is a Duncan JB pickup.  WOW.

After some time shimming the neck and tweaking that thing....AMAZING! 

I am a believer that pick ups and the amps make up about 80% of your tone.  The other 20% is based on the wood and player.  I am sure there are others that would disagree but that is the nice thing about opinions...everyone can have one!!

I usually buy wood for the aesthetics I am trying to accomplish.  I use alder for solid colors because it does not need grain fill.  Thats the sole reason.

Yeah I think we're on the same page here

From what I know, wasn't the original Frankenstein mode from "piece of crap" stuff too?

Kramer did make some killer stuff back in the late 80s/(very)early 90s.  I had a Stagemaster Custom I that I foolishly sold.  Played many gigs with that guitar.  Neck-through, REAL Floyd Rose, and sustain for days!

Yeah, I'm not bashing Kramer here but this wasn't a very good guitar at first. Now it's a lot better.
This is the only Kramer I've played too, but would like to try out some other ones in the future

 

[DocNrock]

No worries, Cederick.  I recognize it as a bottom-barrel Kramer.  If you can get your hands on a Kramer American Series from the late 80s, you'll have a hard time letting go of it.  :laughing7:

 

[Neo Fender]

Schlitz Malt Liquor era Eddie Van Halen would be proud.

 

[sp1keym1key]

Thanks for your reply Cederick.

I think I'll probably pass on the Evertune bridge and keep my money for something else. It's a fantastic bit of engineering but I hate the idea of routing out all that wood. Now I said I'm on the fence when it comes to tonewood, but surely having a good, solid body would help the guitar sustain a lot better. I keep thinking that all that metal would suck the sound out of the guitar.

Thanks for telling me about your experiences!  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cederick]

Thanks for your reply Cederick.

I think I'll probably pass on the Evertune bridge and keep my money for something else. It's a fantastic bit of engineering but I hate the idea of routing out all that wood. Now I said I'm on the fence when it comes to tonewood, but surely having a good, solid body would help the guitar sustain a lot better. I keep thinking that all that metal would suck the sound out of the guitar.

Thanks for telling me about your experiences!  :icon_biggrin:

It's not the amount of wood that makes it sound like that (Steinbergers sounds good and have super small bodies!) but the actual design of the bridge.

Hardtails are obvious; they rest against the body so that makes them sound full.
Floyd Roses have their block which works in a similar way, and the studs of course.
But the Evertune saddles arent attached to anything with a mass, they are all on their "knife edges" or what you should call it.

 

[dmraco]

check the hack job wood filler used in this....
http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=24703.msg359443;topicseen#msg359443

 

[Animalboy71]

I used to think it was a crazy notion that the wood affected the tone of an electric guitar... then I tried building a Walnut tele. The walnut body was beautiful and extremely heavy/dense (which i like) but the tone was terrible. Just a lot of treble and no mids or bass, no sustain at all.

I then bought a swamp ash tele body from warmoth and put my walnut neck on it and presto, best sounding guitar I own to date. Same pick-ups and hardware.

I'm sold

 

[dmraco]

I used to think it was a crazy notion that the wood affected the tone of an electric guitar... then I tried building a Walnut tele. The walnut body was beautiful and extremely heavy/dense (which i like) but the tone was terrible. Just a lot of treble and no mids or bass, no sustain at all.

I then bought a swamp ash tele body from warmoth and put my walnut neck on it and presto, best sounding guitar I own to date. Same pick-ups and hardware.

I'm sold

I did the same thing with a solid maple...pearly gate hum bucker.  Very warm.  I was shocked.  That guitar was SUPER light!!

 

[musicispeace]

Its on my list that I'd like to do a project like a one pickup tele with maybe one P90 in the neck out of any sort of wood (poplar?, Mystery Wood?) with a maple neck and ebony board and see what happens. Teles being referred to as the "polygraph of guitars" because you can't hide with a tele, you have to bring something to the table and I think it would be interesting to have to squeeze tones out completely manually. .

 

[fdesalvo]

Schlitz Malt Liquor era Eddie Van Halen would be proud.

Erasing my original response and going with this