My action problem

[notid]

On my new all-Warmoth strat, I'm having some action problems.

If I lower my action to my desired level, it buzzes quite a bit. It seems like the guitar has the appropriate amount of relief.

On the 12th fret, my action is 6/32 from wood to string on the low-E string, and 5/32 from fret to string.
On the high, it's 4/32 and 3/32, respectively.

It definitely feels higher than an "average" guitar to me.

I used this tool, pulling off the ruler to try to determine if the frets were level. I'm not sure if this is the right way to do this, but I basically layed it across three frets at a time, and checked if it would rock. It did on only the 18th fret. This would lead me to believe that this fret is considerably higher than the others.

I'm wondering if this is the cause of my issue or not.

I also attached a photo of the side of the neck. It *looks* like it may not be seated all the way, but this very well may be a "feature" of the grain.

* Is this the correct way to determine fret level-ness?
* Are my desires for lower action reasonable (it seems high to me)
* Does this fret seem to be the likely cause of my problem? I don't mind getting a fret dressing if required, but it does seem overkill to fix one fret.
* Is it possible that it's not seated correctly, and if so, can I fix it? (see photo)

Thanks again guys,
Bryce

 

[edward2b]

Looks to be seated ok to me.

 

[-CB-]

Get a magnifying glass and a helper.

Tune the guitar to pitch.

Have the helper lightly fret at fret 1 and fret 21 (or 22).

Take the magnifying glass and look under fret 8... there should be just a little bit of room there.  About the thickness of your B string.  You can use a little bit of B string for a gauge to see just how much that is (assuming you have some spare strings laying about).

Adjust the relief, just a little, so that your "bow" is the same as the B string - we're talking fret top to string bottom.

Now that you have that done, make sure you're still tuned to pitch.

Give the assistant a cookie and send them on their way.

Press at fret 3, right behind fret 2.  Look under fret 1 with the magnifier.  There should be just a tiny bit of space there.  Can be as little as just a hair, but just a tiny bit.  If its a lot, you can lower your slot.  Do that for each string.  Having a back lit situation helps, you can see the space under the string easily.  Should be just a tiny amount.  The thickness of your high E is fine.

You've just done the relief and the nut.

Now go to your string elevation - making sure you're still tuned to pitch.

Low E at fret 12 - 4/64 of an inch to 4.5/64 of an inch.
High E at fret 12 - 3.5/64 to 4/64 of an inch.

You'll need to measure critically - from top of fret to bottom of string, with a magnifier and machinists ruler. 

Depending on your bridge, you are either good to go, more or less, or need to adjust all the middle saddles to match the radius of the strings.

That ought to do it, except for intonation, but you didn't ask about that.....

 

[notid]

Get a magnifying glass and a helper.

Tune the guitar to pitch.

Have the helper lightly fret at fret 1 and fret 21 (or 22).

Take the magnifying glass and look under fret 8... there should be just a little bit of room there.  About the thickness of your B string.  You can use a little bit of B string for a gauge to see just how much that is (assuming you have some spare strings laying about).

Adjust the relief, just a little, so that your "bow" is the same as the B string - we're talking fret top to string bottom.

Now that you have that done, make sure you're still tuned to pitch.

Give the assistant a cookie and send them on their way.

Press at fret 3, right behind fret 2.  Look under fret 1 with the magnifier.  There should be just a tiny bit of space there.  Can be as little as just a hair, but just a tiny bit.  If its a lot, you can lower your slot.  Do that for each string.  Having a back lit situation helps, you can see the space under the string easily.  Should be just a tiny amount.  The thickness of your high E is fine.

You've just done the relief and the nut.

Now go to your string elevation - making sure you're still tuned to pitch.

Low E at fret 12 - 4/64 of an inch to 4.5/64 of an inch.
High E at fret 12 - 3.5/64 to 4/64 of an inch.

You'll need to measure critically - from top of fret to bottom of string, with a magnifier and machinists ruler. 

Depending on your bridge, you are either good to go, more or less, or need to adjust all the middle saddles to match the radius of the strings.

That ought to do it, except for intonation, but you didn't ask about that.....

Okay, I checked those and they seemed to be set correctly, however lowering the action any lower that where it is right now causes buzzing...

Thanks!
Bryce

 

[-CB-]

At what frets does it buzz?

 

[mullyman]

As long as the buzzing doesn't come through the amp you're good to go. A guitar is going to have a certain amount of buzz to it no matter what you do. As for the action setting, I haven't the slightest idea what the numbers are for measurements but I adjust my action so my high and low E strings can fit the edge of a coin under them. Then I make adjustments from there on the other strings.
MULLY

 

[Dan025]

you say the 18th fret rocks with that tool. if it is high it might need to be seated with some light taps from a mallet. depending on just how high it is you might have less relief than you think causing all the geometry to be off. does it buzz bad at 17? does it buzz at all at 18-21/22? when you play 17 does it actually sound as if you are playing 18?

 

[-CB-]

Use a plastic mallet to set the fret lower.

You may have to really whack it a good one to do so, but it will stay put if you do.

If its buzzing above fret 18... thats not your issue

 

[notid]

you say the 18th fret rocks with that tool. if it is high it might need to be seated with some light taps from a mallet. depending on just how high it is you might have less relief than you think causing all the geometry to be off. does it buzz bad at 17? does it buzz at all at 18-21/22? when you play 17 does it actually sound as if you are playing 18?

I hope it's not just my ears or my picking, but I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. If I lower the action of one of the strings to the level that I like, I get that dull, no-soundy kind of sound, up until fret 17. 18 (the one with the problem) comes out fine, which makes sense. I tried this on each of the strings, but they don't all seem to reproduce this behavior to that extent. Some just have a slight improvement in buzzing at fret 18, but it's a little hard to tell. The relief definitely looks right. I don't have a magnifying glass, but the height at the nut (an earvana tusq), when pressing just above fret 2 appears to have just the slightest of space for each string. It may be a tiny bit bigger that the high e string.

Thanks for all of the info guys. I am beginning to think I don't have the skills (or equipment) to diagnose this problem well. I also travel for a living, which can make getting the necessary equipment a little tricky.

Let me know if this helps isolate the problem.

Thanks,
Bryce

 

[Dan025]

yep sounds like you need to reseat the fret
tell this to the tech, he may just try to level 'em. you don't want to just level a rising fret. and if you went with stainless he may have trouble getting them polished up right. depends on his experience and equipment.
if the fret is not seated it might not transfer sound right and it might continue to rise.

 

[-CB-]

if you're sure its high... I'm telling ya... a plastic mallet, like you can get at Sears or Home Depot.

Not rubber.  Plastic - usually they're like an amber plastic on one side, a white nylon on the other.  That wont mar the fret at all.  You want to back up the neck onto something solid - some wood, covered with a towel folded in two.  Then lots of quick little taps... measure the rock, tap tap tap tap... measure... all across the frets surface.  This is not a hard thing to do.

 

[notid]

Okay thanks for the help guys... I will try in the next few days and let you know my findings.

 

[disaster]

By installing a new neck you've basically made a "new" guitar.  It will require a setup.  If you have the skills & tools to perform a setup & adjust the action great.  Go for it.  If not just take the guitar to a luthier & have a setup done.  Let him know you installed a new neck.  He'll check it out.  The cost of a setup is no worse than the cost of a set of nut files.  But it should get you where you were going in the 1st place: a better playing guitar. :blob7:

Good Luck