Mooncaster potentiometer fitment conundrum

[whiteraven85]

Hi all. Just got my new Mooncaster in and wanted to start wiring. The first pots I ordered were too small to fit all the washers on. They would go through and I could secure it a couple threads with the top washer, but without room for the bottom it just spins the pot once the dial is at 10/0. So I ordered a set of long shafts, but I can't get the neck volume and tone in there due to the angle and cavity lip being in the way! Anybody have a solution? Is there a "mid-length pot I don't know about? I know a lot of people have built these, but I haven't seen anything about this problem while searching the forum and the Googles. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated before I start shaving away wood from this beautiful body!

 

[mayfly]

if it were me I'd just shave off a bit of the lip.

 

[Fat Pete]

Is there room under/behind the lip for them to fit at the desired depth? If so, could you just open the holes up a little to allow more angle? Maybe just take the finish off from the inside of the holes.

It does look very close. This is one of Warmoth's own photos:

I'm surprised it hasn't come up before if there's an issue.

 

[Cagey]

I used long shaft pots, partly because they're going through wood which eats up enough shaft length that they need to be longer, and partly because I use ground lugs for tying everything together (which also uses a bit of shaft length) rather than risk ruining the pot by soldering to its housing...

But, I also had a bit of trouble getting them in. For one thing, the angle you have to turn them to to get them in is within a couple degrees of being impossible due to obstruction. The other issue was the satin finish is kinda thick, so the holes end up smaller in diameter than they need to be. I managed to wrestle the little rascals in, but in retrospect if I had to do it again I'd get out a rat tail file and remove some of the finish inside the holes.

Where you're really going to have fun is if you've got your pickup selector switch in one of the horns. You have to use one of these switches...

...and you need to build up the mount a bit with a couple washers. Sorry, I don't have a picture of this so I'll try to explain. There's very little interior height in the horns, so first off you've got to remove the switch tip or the thing will never turn into the hole. Then, once it's in, it seems the underside of the body's top is not flat (I'm guessing here because there's no way to see it), so the switch will not "square up" with the hole. The long contact mounting flange/body of the switch can't get parallel with the underside of the top, so it holds the switch slightly cocked. It's not horrible, but it's not exactly right and once you notice it your eye is drawn to it. So, if you add a couple/few washer to the switch's threaded barrel, the whole assembly sits slightly away from the top, and when you thread the retainer ring on from the outside everything squares up nicely. You might end up doing this more than once trying two and then three washers because you're going through a wood top, which is thicker than pickguard material, so it eats up a lotta that barrel's length. I would suggest when you buy the switch that you also buy one of those elongated retainer nuts like they use on Les Pauls...

They fit down into the hole a bit so you have half a chance of catching some thread on the switch barrel.

This is something Warmoth really needs to address. I've seen one other builder who ended up cutting an access hole and fabbing a cover for it, just to get around all the aggravation. I don't know if it needs to go that far - a little extra routing internally would solve solve the problem as well. But as it is, this is a real black eye for that body design, at least from an assembly point of view.

 

[Fat Pete]

Lovely neat wiring job there, Kevin. Anybody would think you've done that before. I like those little clips too.

Warmoth cut a round rebate by default in toggle switch locations to reduce the top thickness. Obviously intended to make it easier to fit a 'vertical' switch, but has the opposite effect if you want/have to fit an horizontal one, as without washers it just makes it tilt. I'd be willing to bet that there's such a rebate lurking in the darkness of the Mooncaster horn.

(pic is of a diamondback so there's also a rebate in the top jack socket location.)

 

[Cagey]

Thanks. The clips not only keep the wires from bouncing around and getting work-hardened at the solder joint, but in this case there's also an F hole so I figured it was best if the wires were positively retained where they couldn't be seen.

I'll bet you're right about the switch hole relief. I looked at the top in the area of the switch, and it seems fairly flat so it would follow that it's flat underneath, too. But, I think that top is carved out of a solid piece rather than a formed piece like you'd see on an arch top such as an ES-325, so it would follow that they'd do something special at the switch location. Then, it would do just like you say - tilt the switch. I tried to use a different switch in there, but it didn't work out. Everything with a toggle and 1/2" barrel mount ends up too big. You have to use that L-bracket Switchcraft part.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Lovely neat wiring job there, Kevin. Anybody would think you've done that before. I like those little clips too.

Boy, no kidding. I don't know how often the word "beautiful" gets tossed around when discussing guitar wiring, but that is truly a beautiful wiring job. It's like looking at a sunset from the beach or something. It makes me want to be a better person  :laughing7:  The lug-to-lug thing is brilliant, I'll be logging that one away for future use...

To the OP, it seems this model is beset by electronic component figment issues from every angle. For those pots, I think I'd start out by cleaning any finish out of the holes and then, if needed, I'd massage the back side of that ledge to gain the necessary clearance. I'll be interested to see how you go about getting this licked and I do hope you'll share some more of the build!

 

[Cagey]

Thanks! Due to positioning issues, the lug-to-lug connection trick doesn't work out as often as one might wish. It's more a matter of recognizing an opportunity.

Bagman once described my wiring as almost "anal"  :laughing7: It's not that so much as having watched a lotta middle-aged WWII widows knit control systems together. You wanna see wiring jobs that are things of beauty, get a hen party together in an electrical sewing circle, pay 'em union scale to follow military spec, and don't ride 'em about time. You'll get control systems that are so pretty they'll make you cry if they ever need to be worked on. And if after working on them they don't look as good as new, those same women will make you cry from shame as they show you how to do it right.

 

[Logrinn]

And also to the OP; be sure to use good quality pots with a smaller house. The standards CTS ones are pretty "big".
The Bourns I always rave about is slightly smaller I believe ...

 

[mayfly]

Thanks! Due to positioning issues, the lug-to-lug connection trick doesn't work out as often as one might wish. It's more a matter of recognizing an opportunity.

Bagman once described my wiring as almost "anal"  :laughing7: It's not that so much as having watched a lotta middle-aged WWII widows knit control systems together. You wanna see wiring jobs that are things of beauty, get a hen party together in an electrical sewing circle, pay 'em union scale to follow military spec, and don't ride 'em about time. You'll get control systems that are so pretty they'll make you cry if they ever need to be worked on. And if after working on them they don't look as good as new, those same women will make you cry from shame as they show you how to do it right.

I can completely see that.  All of the best solderers and assemblers down at the plant are middle aged women who would otherwise be doing needlepoint.  The electronics industry runs on these old girls!  :headbang:

 

[Ayrton]

...and you need to build up the mount a bit with a couple washers. Sorry, I don't have a picture of this so I'll try to explain. There's very little interior height in the horns, so first off you've got to remove the switch tip or the thing will never turn into the hole. Then, once it's in, it seems the underside of the body's top is not flat (I'm guessing here because there's no way to see it), so the switch will not "square up" with the hole. The long contact mounting flange/body of the switch can't get parallel with the underside of the top, so it holds the switch slightly cocked. It's not horrible, but it's not exactly right and once you notice it your eye is drawn to it. So, if you add a couple/few washer to the switch's threaded barrel, the whole assembly sits slightly away from the top, and when you thread the retainer ring on from the outside everything squares up nicely. You might end up doing this more than once trying two and then three washers because you're going through a wood top, which is thicker than pickguard material, so it eats up a lotta that barrel's length. I would suggest when you buy the switch that you also buy one of those elongated retainer nuts like they use on Les Pauls...


This is something Warmoth really needs to address. I've seen one other builder who ended up cutting an access hole and fabbing a cover for it, just to get around all the aggravation. I don't know if it needs to go that far - a little extra routing internally would solve the problem as well. But as it is, this is a real black eye for that body design, at least from an assembly point of view.

K you are a life saver. I could not for the life of me figure out why my switch would not sit level.

 

[dmraco]

I was worried when putting together my mooncaster bass after reading this, especially since it had a finish and that adds a few more mils.  My pots went right in.  My only issue I I could not use a washer with the toggle.  I snugged up the bolt ok.  If I remove some clear in the cavity the washer should go on nicely.  Maybe warmoth made some mods as my pots are full size...

 

[ghotiphry]

I had the same problem, man.  This was my solution.

 

[Cagey]

I wonder why Warmoth isn't cutting those reliefs? They had to have assembled a Mooncaster more than once in the process of designing the thing, so they have to know it's a pain in the ass. It's not like anybody's putting oddball pots/switches in the thing where you might expect to have problems; even the standard parts don't wanna go in.

 

[dmraco]

here is a photo from mine.  The one side was filed a bit.  Please ignore my nasty ground solder.

 

[Sovereign_13]

It seems like the problem could be alleviated by moving the little nub (where the cover plate mounting screw attaches) like half an inch or so toward the tail of the guitar.  That way the mounting point sits between the pot holes, instead of directly over one.