Line 6 GX Bass recording Trouble...

[Mapleg4]

I've used a Bass Pod xt previously that I quit using because it quit remembering my settings. Now I use my little GX instead, because it's easier to set up and easier to use with my pedalboard. The problem is that the volume is too low. I have the right sound, but the sound is too low both with the pedalboard and without. I've tried to add more compression wich didn't help and I added some more midrange wich helped, but the volume is still to low compared to the guitar tracks on my demos. I've tried to use 2 amp stacks in PodFarm and that didn't work either. I don't want to add more eq and I like the combination of the "Ampeg" in the GX and the eq my MXR M80 preamp. I have the eq and the distortion, but not the volume, and I can't boost my clean tone either or it's just going to sound distorted.
I've been considering everything from a clean boost pedal to a second soundcard between the GX and my computer.
Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[Patrick from Davis]

You need a mic pre with a DI.  This is a can of worms, there are many opinions, and some people really believe strongly in certain units.  However, there are also many clones of "classic" circuits out there.  The cheap $40 range of pres are not that great.  The $100 are better, but $300 is where the clones of pres from classic mixing boards start to come in.  I can't tell from your post if you are looking to acquire more gear, or a quick fix.  You might also get an active DI box that has some signal fortifying capability.  Good luck
Patrick

 

[Mapleg4]

You need a mic pre with a DI.  This is a can of worms, there are many opinions, and some people really believe strongly in certain units.  However, there are also many clones of "classic" circuits out there.  The cheap $40 range of pres are not that great.  The $100 are better, but $300 is where the clones of pres from classic mixing boards start to come in.  I can't tell from your post if you are looking to acquire more gear, or a quick fix.  You might also get an active DI box that has some signal fortifying capability.  Good luck
Patrick

I definetly need some more gear to get the volume I need without unwanted distortion. I really want to hear the woody sound from my G4! The MXR M80 DI+ I use as a preamp/EQ/distortion pedal is of course also a DI box. What do I need to use the M80 as a DI? Does Radial have anything I can use?
I'm also considering getting some kind of computer audio interface/soundcard so that I can use a keyboard controller I have that I can't use because I lack a single USB port on my laptop. If I can get something that can solve both these problems, where I can use both the GX and get a louder, "cleaner" sound as well as finally using that controller to do some tracks.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

If it were me, I would use the MXR M80 for the amp preamp, take the out from it and go into a Golden Age PRE-73 MK2 as the mic pre/DI.  Yes you'd need to acquire one of those, and they run $350.  It is a clone of the Neve 1073 mic preamp circuit and sounds quite nice.  From that you go into the AD/DA box and into the computer.  The GAP is a nice unit.  You can have them modded for another $300 to have the NOS transistor, tantalum caps, and transformers that are vintage specs.  This will be like getting better tubes for a guitar amp.  It sounds nice, but then with the addition, it is like going from a normal TV to a high def one.

That is what I would do for excellent results on a modest budget.  When you start to get into pre's and mics and so on, the dollar signs start flying by.  Quite horrifying actually.
Patrick

 

[Mapleg4]

If it were me, I would use the MXR M80 for the amp preamp, take the out from it and go into a Golden Age PRE-73 MK2 as the mic pre/DI.  Yes you'd need to acquire one of those, and they run $350.  It is a clone of the Neve 1073 mic preamp circuit and sounds quite nice.  From that you go into the AD/DA box and into the computer.  The GAP is a nice unit.  You can have them modded for another $300 to have the NOS transistor, tantalum caps, and transformers that are vintage specs.  This will be like getting better tubes for a guitar amp.  It sounds nice, but then with the addition, it is like going from a normal TV to a high def one.

That is what I would do for excellent results on a modest budget.  When you start to get into pre's and mics and so on, the dollar signs start flying by.  Quite horrifying actually.
Patrick

Yes, but I still want to combine the sound from the Ampeg Classic Patch in Podfrarm with the eq of the M80.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I am unsure of the path...

Bass-Pod-M80-Computer?

Or do you have multiple sends/returns from the pod you are trying to use?
Patrick

 

[Mapleg4]

I am unsure of the path...

Bass-Pod-M80-Computer?

Or do you have multiple sends/returns from the pod you are trying to use?
Patrick

No. I currently just plug my M-80 into my Line 6 GX and into my laptop. If I have any chance of getting a sound that competes with the drum samples and the layers of guitars and keyboards I use in my demos, either have to boost my bass signal into a boomy mush or duplicate like 6 layers of the bass track in order to get a volume that's high enough. I just want to use the tone I have now at a high enough volume!

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Oh, OK.  Have you looked at the level in of the mic in on the computer?  Win 7 has some odd ways of going about that.  Actually everything back before XP was a bit weird.  Other than that, you could put the mic pre between the the gx and the computer.  It has a level in and a level out.  Adjust and go.
Patrick

 

[Mapleg4]

Oh, OK.  Have you looked at the level in of the mic in on the computer?  Win 7 has some odd ways of going about that.  Actually everything back before XP was a bit weird.  Other than that, you could put the mic pre between the the gx and the computer.  It has a level in and a level out.  Adjust and go.
Patrick

I've tried to increase the latency, but that just distorts everything. The level on that is just perfect for my guitar/drums and keyboard stuff (I use Bandstand for the keyboards and Toontrack for the drums). I think that just setting that higher would just make it worse.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I would look into the operating system mixer.  That will control the level that the line in is set at.  Don't mess with the software that you are putting things into.  If it is choked at the mic input, then you will take a weak signal and amplify it to where any noise will be heard.

There is a thread here with too much for me to post, but you might want to look at your Win settings and check if something is awry.
Patrick

 

[tfarny]

I'm pretty sure you can get a toneport ux2 on ebay for about 100 bucks that will make recording bass A LOT easier for you...just a thought. It replaces the pre, D/I, and your computer's sound card (it become the sound card used).

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Oh yeah, I assumed that you are using a Win machine.  Sorry if you are not.  I have had times where the "mixer" in the operating system has done odd things, and this problem really has that vibe to me.  Hope you get it straightened out.
Patrick

 

[Mapleg4]

I'm pretty sure you can get a toneport ux2 on ebay for about 100 bucks that will make recording bass A LOT easier for you...just a thought. It replaces the pre, D/I, and your computer's sound card (it become the sound card used).

The exact same sound card is in the GX that I use. I just can't get the volume I want.

 

[Mapleg4]

Oh yeah, I assumed that you are using a Win machine.  Sorry if you are not.  I have had times where the "mixer" in the operating system has done odd things, and this problem really has that vibe to me.  Hope you get it straightened out.
Patrick

It's Windows that I'm using. I just can't understand that my guitar tracks are great but my bass tracks are barely hearable.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

There is a part that allows the software or hardware to control the input levels.  It is a click switch in the operating system.  That might do it.
Patrick

 

[Mapleg4]

There is a part that allows the software or hardware to control the input levels.  It is a click switch in the operating system.  That might do it.
Patrick

I'm deciding wether to just increase the latency and the default bit depth, but my guitar sound is just perfect with what it's at present... I'll just get some kind of recording/USB hub I can plug the MXR M80 into as well. I do layer the tracks and split them to one side in order to get a fuller sound, but that works, but I don't want my distorted guitar sound to be more distorted or louder.

 

[tfarny]

I'm confused - you just need more volume? Why can't you do that within your DAW after recording, if all else fails?

 

[Patrick from Davis]

The latency and bit depth shouldn't be involved in this problem.  That is part of the encoding process and time lag that is involved with analog to digital (and back to analog for your speakers) conversion.  The volume is included in that process, but not controlled by it.  This should narrow the problem down to one of two things.  Either the level coming out of the GX is very low, or the attenuation on the mic in on the laptop is very high, causing a low signal.  It would seem that you can get a good guitar sound in, so that implies that the mic level on the laptop is fine.  But, Windows does strange things with respect to the levels.  It allows other software to control it, and change it on a whim.  This is why I suggested that you go through the menus in Windows and set it so that it cannot be controlled by the various software running on the system.  After that is done, if the problem is still there, you could narrow it down to a low output on the GX.  If there is an adjustment there it might be set low.  There might be more than one adjustment as well.  I don't know much of anything about the GX.  Look for a pad setting, these will drop your volume dramatically.  I would make sure that Windows cannot change things, so that you are confident that that problem is not occurring, and then look into the GX as the next source of trouble.  After that, you can check the level adjustments on the recording software, to be sure that something doesn't have a pad setting on for -20 db or something.
Good luck.
Patrick

 

[Mapleg4]

The latency and bit depth shouldn't be involved in this problem.  That is part of the encoding process and time lag that is involved with analog to digital (and back to analog for your speakers) conversion.  The volume is included in that process, but not controlled by it.  This should narrow the problem down to one of two things.  Either the level coming out of the GX is very low, or the attenuation on the mic in on the laptop is very high, causing a low signal.  It would seem that you can get a good guitar sound in, so that implies that the mic level on the laptop is fine.  But, Windows does strange things with respect to the levels.  It allows other software to control it, and change it on a whim.  This is why I suggested that you go through the menus in Windows and set it so that it cannot be controlled by the various software running on the system.  After that is done, if the problem is still there, you could narrow it down to a low output on the GX.  If there is an adjustment there it might be set low.  There might be more than one adjustment as well.  I don't know much of anything about the GX.  Look for a pad setting, these will drop your volume dramatically.  I would make sure that Windows cannot change things, so that you are confident that that problem is not occurring, and then look into the GX as the next source of trouble.  After that, you can check the level adjustments on the recording software, to be sure that something doesn't have a pad setting on for -20 db or something.
Good luck.
Patrick

I'll look into that.