CrackedPepper
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Sorry about your father-in-law. You and your family are in our thoughts
Thanks for he pics of this axe. It is truly an heirloom!
Thanks for he pics of this axe. It is truly an heirloom!
Les Paul Custom with a rosewood bridge?
- Thread starter bagman67
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jay4321
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Sorry to hear the news. It's unfortunate how you came to own it, but a nice addition just the same. He was thoughtful enough to pass it on to a family guitar player where a lot of fathers-in-law might have sold it off.
Clearly I was mistaken last year, this guitar does not need a Floyd.
Clearly I was mistaken last year, this guitar does not need a Floyd.
Sorry for your loss, but you have gained a unique instrument. No doubt you'll get a valuation with the current bridge and with a TOM?
Can't make out the serial number clearly but I guess you've looked at the blue book? http://www.gibson.com/Files/downloads/bluebook/GibsonSERIALNUMBERS.pdf
Can't make out the serial number clearly but I guess you've looked at the blue book? http://www.gibson.com/Files/downloads/bluebook/GibsonSERIALNUMBERS.pdf
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OzziePete
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Saddened to hear of your family's loss. Condolences.
Not meaning to be rude at this sad time in your family and as particular as this guiatr is obviouslya family asset, but I can't help wonder why the original owner took out a very reliable piece of machinery ina genuine T-O-M bridge and replaced it with a very much compromised aletrnative? It would seem to me a retrograde move. Can't say I have seen many Gibson players contemplate that sort of move, even jazzers playing L5s kinda wished they had a T-O-M on the instrument.Maybe the original sounded too metallic in tone to the jazz playing owner at that time? :dontknow:
Despite my misgivings about the instrument's bridge, personally, I'd leave it as is, as a tribute to your father-in-law. Get it nicely spruced up and play it occassionally on good nights. If it doesn't intonate perfectly, so be it. It looks real class.
I have seen T-O-M like bridges on wooden bridge pieces, but I think that was on a flat top acoustic rather than an archtop or curved body top. I'd imagine there would be a bit of work involved in getting the T-O-M to sit well in that sort of housing and it may involved shaving the rosewood down to fit. Not sure if there's much material at the highest point of the curve and shaving the rosewood may prove troublesome. I'd get some good advice from those who work with archtops, I'm sure they'd get a lot of requests to install T-O-M's on archtops a lot and probably have experience at doing the job you have in mind.
Not meaning to be rude at this sad time in your family and as particular as this guiatr is obviouslya family asset, but I can't help wonder why the original owner took out a very reliable piece of machinery ina genuine T-O-M bridge and replaced it with a very much compromised aletrnative? It would seem to me a retrograde move. Can't say I have seen many Gibson players contemplate that sort of move, even jazzers playing L5s kinda wished they had a T-O-M on the instrument.Maybe the original sounded too metallic in tone to the jazz playing owner at that time? :dontknow:
Despite my misgivings about the instrument's bridge, personally, I'd leave it as is, as a tribute to your father-in-law. Get it nicely spruced up and play it occassionally on good nights. If it doesn't intonate perfectly, so be it. It looks real class.
I have seen T-O-M like bridges on wooden bridge pieces, but I think that was on a flat top acoustic rather than an archtop or curved body top. I'd imagine there would be a bit of work involved in getting the T-O-M to sit well in that sort of housing and it may involved shaving the rosewood down to fit. Not sure if there's much material at the highest point of the curve and shaving the rosewood may prove troublesome. I'd get some good advice from those who work with archtops, I'm sure they'd get a lot of requests to install T-O-M's on archtops a lot and probably have experience at doing the job you have in mind.
If you put a tunematic on it, it will sound like every other guitar like that, of course. If it were mine (in the legacy sense) and Frank Ford was just up the pike, I would be thinking of asking him to make an intonated saddle to fit that bridge. In fact, I'd take a few shots at it myself. You'd need another guitar with a 24.625" scale, and be fairly well settled on string gauges. Look at Paul Reed Smith's stoptails, it's just a zigzag - a straight line under the wound strings, another one under the unwound.
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OzziePete
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stubhead said:
A compensated bridge might be a good plan B if the T-O-M won't/can't be installed safely. :icon_thumright:
bagman67
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Thanks, all, for the kind thoughts. I knew y'all would understand.
With respect to the bridge - I definitely see the sentimental value in keeping the guitar as-currently-configured, bridge-wise. But I also want to be able to tune it accurately (to the extent we can overcome the inherent imperfections of guitar tuning), and also to radius the bridge - right now the bridge is dead-flat, which really screws with the action.
Moreover, I want the guitar to be a player - a cursory inspection of the photos shows that it was well used and somewhat abused in Leon's lifetime, and he didn't give it to me to take out every once in a while to think about him; he gave it to me to make a racket in his memory. So I want to approach this practically. Either a compensated bone or plastic saddle or a TOM bridge would do the trick, with me leaning somewhat toward the latter. I'll see what I can come up with in consultation with Mr. Ford.
Peace, brothers and sisters -
Bagman
With respect to the bridge - I definitely see the sentimental value in keeping the guitar as-currently-configured, bridge-wise. But I also want to be able to tune it accurately (to the extent we can overcome the inherent imperfections of guitar tuning), and also to radius the bridge - right now the bridge is dead-flat, which really screws with the action.
Moreover, I want the guitar to be a player - a cursory inspection of the photos shows that it was well used and somewhat abused in Leon's lifetime, and he didn't give it to me to take out every once in a while to think about him; he gave it to me to make a racket in his memory. So I want to approach this practically. Either a compensated bone or plastic saddle or a TOM bridge would do the trick, with me leaning somewhat toward the latter. I'll see what I can come up with in consultation with Mr. Ford.
Peace, brothers and sisters -
Bagman
Nando Vallart
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Sorry for you loss, mate!
That is an awesome LP! I think you're about right to turn it playable in the way you need... As far as it's something to remember him, it's also something to be used, not to be put on a stand and keep just for looks!
That is an awesome LP! I think you're about right to turn it playable in the way you need... As far as it's something to remember him, it's also something to be used, not to be put on a stand and keep just for looks!
I'm really sorry to hear about your loss. Cool to see that guitar stay in the family.
I'm curious, how is that bridge mounted? If it's height adjustment pole pieces fit into the body then that's pretty cool, but if it's stuck on there with some adhesive then that could be a little messy. That is one beautiful guitar though!
I'm curious, how is that bridge mounted? If it's height adjustment pole pieces fit into the body then that's pretty cool, but if it's stuck on there with some adhesive then that could be a little messy. That is one beautiful guitar though!
bagman67
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Took it apart this weekend - the archtop bridge just had the TOM posts running through holes drilled in it - wasn't glued down or anything, and it wasn't making particularly even contact with the face of the guitar in any case. The saddle is dead flat - no radius at all. I'm not sure I'll be able to make a go of keeping the rosewood foot for the bridge - it's just not useful enough to keep it in service. I'll be tracking down a battered gold TOM to put on (since let's face it, a brand new gold TOM, or even a nickel one, would stand out rather obnoxiously on this guitar.
Also, the frets are Gibson's fretless-wonder frets - not crowned, but flat surfaced with corners. And they're 40 years old, or thereabouts, and pretty much shot, so I gotta refret the axe. How much to refret a bound-fingerboard LP, you ask? About 450 bucks at Frank Ford's shop. Ouch.
Also, the frets are Gibson's fretless-wonder frets - not crowned, but flat surfaced with corners. And they're 40 years old, or thereabouts, and pretty much shot, so I gotta refret the axe. How much to refret a bound-fingerboard LP, you ask? About 450 bucks at Frank Ford's shop. Ouch.
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OzziePete
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bagman67 said:
Thanx for the update Bagman.....
The replacement NOS bridge would seem the way to go and replace the rosewood anomaly.
Ouch indeed for a refret but I'm sure someone like Frank Ford's shop would do a very good job that would have the guitar looking and sounding great. I have seen some horrid refret jobs here in Australia of Strats and Teles over the years (which is strange cause I'm sure a refret would cost more than a replacement neck which is the way Leo intended, but some folks insist on having their worn and true neck still on it :dontknow: ). If you want to stump up that sort of moeny to have the instrument play beyond it's original fretted life then I guess that is what you will have to do, but otherwise you can always decide to leave it as it was handed to you and call it a family heirloom.
As Dan Erlewine is gracious enough to put in his books (just before you take your cherished Fender to HIM for a $450 re-fret), Fender spent a long time sticking their frets in from the side, instead of straight down. If you get a Fender you want to re-fret and you guess or intuit wrong, you'll be creating splinters at a dizzying rate. If you take your Fender guitar to a quote/unquote "luthier" and he doesn't know this,
RUN...
(take your guitar too) :blob7:
I suspect a combination of Fender necks ruined by unknowing "luthiers" and the S-curve-creating single truss rod added quite a leap to the early success of Warmoth, Boogie Bodies, Charvel, Mighty Mite & the original Schecter Co., those these were all sort-of related back around '81 or so.
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OzziePete
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stubhead said:
My thoughts exactly!
But I would add that Fender had for years offered new necks but had kept it as a kind of dirty secret instead of promoting the modular nature of the instrument. I think when they started charging a King's Ransom for the neck with a Fender sticker on it, is when the parts market started getting a grip on the demnd available. Even to this day, I don't think there's as much demand for replacement necks for existing instruments as Leo thought there would be. Players like the feel of the old neck and won't risk their beloved instrument! I know in Australia back in the pub rock era (1970s - 1980s) players were wearing out necks and they had to go to Fender Australia (distributor) and order the new neck and had to present proof they actually owned a genuine Fender to get it. It was all very back door, hush hush. Plus they ended up with a mongrel instrument with new era decals on it.
I didn't know about the different way that Fender installed the frets though, but I'm not the sort of guy who would even contemplate that sort of job.
I can't understand why someone would buy a Strat or Tele, play it, and think that later on when the frets have worn down that they couldn't wear a new neck in.
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