Intonation Issues...

[Strat Avenger]

Okay, it's embarrassing for me to have to ask this question as I have 7 electric guitars and have never had a problem setting the intonation on any of them except my recent Warmoth Strat build.

This has a Fender American Standard hardtail bridge with
Graph Tech String Saver Classic saddles.

The issue I'm having is that the low-E saddle and G saddle must be all the way back (screw tightened all the way) in order for the fretted note @ the 12th to not be sharper than the harmonic @ the 12th.

The saddles on my Fender American Strat are nowhere near that (although it's not a hardtail, but a 2-point Am Standard bridge sitting flat against the body with 5 springs installed).

Has anyone ever experienced this? There's no more room for adjustment on these 2 strings, and I am using an electronic tuner with the "needle".
  :icon_scratch:

 

[Cagey]

Not all tuners respond the same way to harmonics, and may return false readings. You could try using a different pickup or adjusting your guitar's tone control to filter things differently, and see if that changes your reading. Or, just try a different tuner. I've even heard of strings misbehaving, although I suspect that's fairly rare. I've never seen it myself, and I've tuned about a bajillion guitars.

Also, you don't want to adjust your intonation using the harmonic anyway. When you fret the string, you change it's both its length and tension. It's small, but measurable. So, you tune the string open, then fret it at the 12th to see if you're getting the octave right. Don't press too hard on the string, or you're liable to sharp it. Adjust the saddle by moving it toward the nut to sharpen and vice-versa.

 

[croquet hoop]

Hae you compared the bridge to nut distance on both guitars ?

 

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

Are you using thicker gauge strings? That could move em back a bit.

 

[MikeW]

Also, you don't want to adjust your intonation using the harmonic anyway. When you fret the string, you change it's both its length and tension. It's small, but measurable. So, you tune the string open, then fret it at the 12th to see if you're getting the octave right. Don't press too hard on the string, or you're liable to sharp it. Adjust the saddle by moving it toward the nut to sharpen and vice-versa.

This is most likely your problem. I've had problems with a Boss TU-3 tuner when I was using the harmonic that quickly went away when I started fretting the at the 12th fret as a check. I'm sure you know this too, but a little turn of the screw goes a long way, so check, turn, check, turn, etc.

 

[bagman67]

Seems to me if you tune the string to pitch, and hit the 12th-fret harmonic, you're likely to get the exact octave anyway, so you're not actually testing whether the intonation is correctly tempered by using the harmonic.  You kinda have to fret the guitar to test whether you're doing what you think you're doing.


Or am I showing off my ignorance again?

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I did some work on bass recently and have to move the saddles to take the bridge off.  When I reinstalled the same bridge, on the same bass, with the same brand and gauge strings, the A was in a significantly different place.  Same situation.

Even after all the tuning, open and harmonic compared to 12th fret, and what the tuner says, I still give it the ear test.  See if the fretted note sounds sharp or flat compared to the open one without your eyes looking at the tuner and telling your ears what to hear.

Also, the guitar upright in your lap or on your body from a strap yields slightly different results than it laying on a workbench.  Miniscule, but there nonetheless.

Cagey is right about the fretted notes being bent sharp, so be extra careful.  However, I'd argue if that's how you fret notes when you play, that's how it should be intonated.

 

[Cagey]

Seems to me if you tune the string to pitch, and hit the 12th-fret harmonic, you're likely to get the exact octave anyway, so you're not actually testing whether the intonation is correctly tempered by using the harmonic.  You kinda have to fret the guitar to test whether you're doing what you think you're doing.

Or am I showing off my ignorance again?

No, you're exactly right. If you try to adjust your string length according to the 12th fret harmonic, it will almost always be perfect. If the tuner says you're wrong, it's probably the tuner not representing reality because it's hearing different things. You have to fret it.

 

[Strat Avenger]

Are you using thicker gauge strings? That could move em back a bit.

Same gauge strings on both guitars. I'll try another tuner, as well as compare what my ears hear to what the tuner reads.