I'm an amp mic'ing NOOB, plz point me in the right direction

[Volitions Advocate]

Some people give me flak for this, but I have to say all of this is subjective anyway.  i think the nicest sounding guitar mic is a Royer, from what I've heard anyway, but You certainly wouldn't use one live.

My favorite guitar mic is an Equation Audio DS-V7.  It's cheap..  yes. but nearly as sturdy as a 57 and it sounds much different.  They're 60 bucks and I have 3 of them.  They are more comparable to an SM58 but with a different response curve and they're super-cardioid.   And I REALLY like them, especially for guitar.  So I would say check them out.  Or if not.  Jalane's advice is pretty much spot on.

LINK: http://www.equationaudio.com/mics/dominion-handheld-mics.php?object=dsv7

Here's the spec Sheet: http://www.equationaudio.com/pdfs/dsv7.pdf

 

[clearerphish]

We are in the process of recording our first full length album. We've experimented with just about every combo of mics from our drummer's extensive mic locker. We all agree that the SM57 sounds best micing our 412 cabs. It's odd, as we experimented we've found the best placement for my cab to be the lower left speaker at a 45* angle pointing at the center of the cone. If you know anything about micing guitar amps you know this is not at all what is suggested, but it's what sounds best through our setup.  :icon_scratch:

We use the 57 with a condenser stereo pair way back from the amp. We can bring the room in and out that way. It works for us.

I guess what I am saying here is you have to find what works for you because it will be different than what works for others. I'd say the SM57 is one of the most broadly applicable and forgiving mics out there, IMO.

 

[rockskate4x]

Thanks everybody. I think I'll be getting myself an sm57 for Christmas.

 

[dNA]

It's odd, as we experimented we've found the best placement for my cab to be the lower left speaker at a 45* angle pointing at the center of the cone. If you know anything about micing guitar amps you know this is not at all what is suggested, but it's what sounds best through our setup.  :icon_scratch:

I don't know who you're talking to, but as far as i know pointing a 57 at the center of the cone at a 45 degree angle is a very common placement technique from what I know.

 

[OzziePete]

SM57 or Sennheiser 421 II.  SM57 is ~80 bucks and 421 II is ~380.  Both are industry standards for good reasons.  A SM57 is never a bad choice, no matter what any snob tells you; especially in live music.  80 dollar or 380 dollars well spent, either way.  The 421 II is also a GREAT recording mic for a lot of high-sound-pressure situations.  Brass, hand drums, etc. 

I will also echo what has been said about cheap (sub-1k) condenser mics.  Just don't. 

-Mark

I take it you mean condensor mics under $100, not $1000? There's a condensor mic or two under $1000 retail that would be quite nifty to have, e.g. the Neumann TLM 102.

 

[dNA]

I take it you mean condensor mics under $100, not $1000? There's a condensor mic or two under $1000 retail that would be quite nifty to have, e.g. the Neumann TLM 102.

oh for sure. there's a long list of condensers under 1k that are kickass. but I'd say you're not really looking at anything to serious until about $300

 

[clearerphish]

It's odd, as we experimented we've found the best placement for my cab to be the lower left speaker at a 45* angle pointing at the center of the cone. If you know anything about micing guitar amps you know this is not at all what is suggested, but it's what sounds best through our setup.  :icon_scratch:

I don't know who you're talking to, but as far as i know pointing a 57 at the center of the cone at a 45 degree angle is a very common placement technique from what I know.

I was under the impression that one of the most common ways to mic a cabinet was with the mic pointing dead on at the outer edge of the cone, say at 4 o'clock.

 

[AndyG]

I was under the impression that one of the most common ways to mic a cabinet was with the mic pointing dead on at the outer edge of the cone, say at 4 o'clock.

That's the most common in live situations, as it pretty much eliminates bleed from anywhere else.
Recording is a whole other ballgame ... basically one where anything goes.  Mic choice(s) and placement(s) are just like the spices you put in your chili .... all a matter of taste.

+1 BTW on the Neumann TLM102 ... great mic for the price.

 

[clearerphish]

Yeah we tried all different placements on all four cones and came up with that based on everyone wearing headphones while we moved the mic around. I had never done that particular experiment personally. I knew there was differences in the sound but it was pretty obvious when we hit the sweetest spot. Too bad my tracking so far hasn't done the tone justice.  :toothy12:

 

[AndyG]

Yeah we tried all different placements on all four cones and came up with that based on everyone wearing headphones while we moved the mic around. I had never done that particular experiment personally. I knew there was differences in the sound but it was pretty obvious when we hit the sweetest spot. Too bad my tracking so far hasn't done the tone justice.  :toothy12:

Interesting .... I would NEVER judge a tone based on what I hear in a set of headphones.  But, if you like it when you listen back on speakers, more power to you. 

 

[taez555]

Yeah we tried all different placements on all four cones and came up with that based on everyone wearing headphones while we moved the mic around. I had never done that particular experiment personally. I knew there was differences in the sound but it was pretty obvious when we hit the sweetest spot. Too bad my tracking so far hasn't done the tone justice.  :toothy12:

Interesting .... I would NEVER judge a tone based on what I hear in a set of headphones.  But, if you like it when you listen back on speakers, more power to you. 

That's actually a very common trick.  It's not so much the tone you're looking for, but more of the frequencies (the sweet spot) that come through.    You really can hear what a difference moving the mic 1/4" in any direction does to the sound.  Once you listen back on the big speakers you can judge a little better, but it really gets you in the ballpark a lot quicker.

Pro Engineers will often use an asst engineer moving the mic, while they sit in the control rooming talking back to the asst over the headphones, as to which direction to move the mic.

 

[AndyG]

Yeah we tried all different placements on all four cones and came up with that based on everyone wearing headphones while we moved the mic around. I had never done that particular experiment personally. I knew there was differences in the sound but it was pretty obvious when we hit the sweetest spot. Too bad my tracking so far hasn't done the tone justice.  :toothy12:

Interesting .... I would NEVER judge a tone based on what I hear in a set of headphones.  But, if you like it when you listen back on speakers, more power to you. 

That's actually a very common trick.  It's not so much the tone you're looking for, but more of the frequencies (the sweet spot) that come through.    You really can hear what a difference moving the mic 1/4" in any direction does to the sound.   Once you listen back on the big speakers you can judge a little better, but it really gets you in the ballpark a lot quicker.

Pro Engineers will often use an asst engineer moving the mic, while they sit in the control rooming talking back to the asst over the headphones, as to which direction to move the mic.

I've been doing pro audio for over 15 years, and I have learned in that time that the only thing headphones are good for is not bothering other people.  The drivers are too close to your ears to make any serious tonal decisions, and what you hear through headphones, you'll hear through speakers anyway.  But if it works for you, great.  Like I mentioned earlier, what is important to me is the sound of the amp in the room.  That sound is what the player has worked on, so it is the sound I want to capture.

 

[jalane]

I've been doing pro audio for over 15 years, and I have learned in that time that the only thing headphones are good for is not bothering other people.  The drivers are too close to your ears to make any serious tonal decisions, and what you hear through headphones, you'll hear through speakers anyway.  But if it works for you, great.  Like I mentioned earlier, what is important to me is the sound of the amp in the room.  That sound is what the player has worked on, so it is the sound I want to capture.

Well having all that experience, you must know that it's impossible to accurately capture the "sound in the room" if you can't get an isolated listen to what your mic sounds like.  If you have the benefit of separate rooms for tracking and control, then sure it's preferable to have someone in there listening on the monitors since it will obviously give a more accurate picture of what the mic is picking up.  But a dedicated control room is a luxury for alot of recording enthusiasts, and headphones can be immensely helpful.  Plus, i would argue that with a decent pair of cans you can pretty easily identify the sweet spot.

Would i mix an entire record with 'phones, of course not.  But for getting an isolated sense of what your mic is picking up when i don't have a separate room for monitoring, they're great. 

 

[AndyG]

Well having all that experience, you must know that it's impossible to accurately capture the "sound in the room" if you can't get an isolated listen to what your mic sounds like.  If you have the benefit of separate rooms for tracking and control, then sure it's preferable to have someone in there listening on the monitors since it will obviously give a more accurate picture of what the mic is picking up.  But a dedicated control room is a luxury for alot of recording enthusiasts, and headphones can be immensely helpful.  Plus, i would argue that with a decent pair of cans you can pretty easily identify the sweet spot.

You're right, having an isolated control room is a luxury.  When I record at home, I obviously have to do things differently.
I never had the intention of turing this into an I'm right and you're not thread.  If you look at any of my previous posts, I simply state the ways I prefer working.  If someone does something different, and they get the results they want, GREAT!!!  However, perhaps some of what I do may be new to some people, and they might want to try it.  That's what I always thought the intention of this catagory was.
Bottom line ... there is no one correct way to mic an instrument, nor one correct mic, etc, etc.  When you have to buy your own gear, you are forced to make educated decisions.  However, when you work out of multiple studios, they all have their own gear.  I do not have the luxury of owning thousands of dollars worth of microphones, so I deal with what the studio in question has.  My preferences are simply based on gear that I have tried in the past ... they are by no means the only way of doing things.

 

[jalane]

Well having all that experience, you must know that it's impossible to accurately capture the "sound in the room" if you can't get an isolated listen to what your mic sounds like.  If you have the benefit of separate rooms for tracking and control, then sure it's preferable to have someone in there listening on the monitors since it will obviously give a more accurate picture of what the mic is picking up.  But a dedicated control room is a luxury for alot of recording enthusiasts, and headphones can be immensely helpful.  Plus, i would argue that with a decent pair of cans you can pretty easily identify the sweet spot.

You're right, having an isolated control room is a luxury.  When I record at home, I obviously have to do things differently.
I never had the intention of turing this into an I'm right and you're not thread.  If you look at any of my previous posts, I simply state the ways I prefer working.  If someone does something different, and they get the results they want, GREAT!!!  However, perhaps some of what I do may be new to some people, and they might want to try it.   That's what I always thought the intention of this catagory was.
Bottom line ... there is no one correct way to mic an instrument, nor one correct mic, etc, etc.   When you have to buy your own gear, you are forced to make educated decisions.  However, when you work out of multiple studios, they all have their own gear.  I do not have the luxury of owning thousands of dollars worth of microphones, so I deal with what the studio in question has.  My preferences are simply based on gear that I have tried in the past ... they are by no means the only way of doing things.

Right on, I can dig that!  :icon_thumright:

 

[AprioriMark]

SM57 or Sennheiser 421 II.  SM57 is ~80 bucks and 421 II is ~380.  Both are industry standards for good reasons.  A SM57 is never a bad choice, no matter what any snob tells you; especially in live music.  80 dollar or 380 dollars well spent, either way.  The 421 II is also a GREAT recording mic for a lot of high-sound-pressure situations.  Brass, hand drums, etc. 

I will also echo what has been said about cheap (sub-1k) condenser mics.  Just don't. 

-Mark

I take it you mean condensor mics under $100, not $1000? There's a condensor mic or two under $1000 retail that would be quite nifty to have, e.g. the Neumann TLM 102.

There is only one condenser mic worth owning, and you've got the proper brand in mind.

-Mark

 

[AndyG]

Sorry, but I am going to be a real audio snob for a minute or two ....

THIS is a condensor mic worth owning!!!!!!  Soundelux U99:

 

[bagman67]

Carvin has an SM57 knockoff.  $79.

http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=M67&cid=34

I have one and I like it.

Bagman

 

[Justinginn]

So nobody ever told me to try putting a mic exactly where my ears are when I'm playing normally. Very obvious, and I've put mics all over the place, but man it sounds so good above the amp and looking down. Score one for common sense?  :laughing7:

 

[AndyG]

So nobody ever told me to try putting a mic exactly where my ears are when I'm playing normally. Very obvious, and I've put mics all over the place, but man it sounds so good above the amp and looking down. Score one for common sense?  :laughing7:

That works, and it IS uncommon   :glasses9:
The last 30 years or so of recorded music has gotten everyone used to tight-micing everything.  When you think about it, when you listen to a drum kit, is your ear beside the snare?  Of course not ... but we put microphones there to get separation between instruments.  WAAAAAAY back in the good old days, there would be a couple (if not only one) mic in the room, and the band would mix themselves by the relative distance from that mic.  Drum recording up until the late 60's early 70's was Kick, Snare, Overheads, and rooms.  That's why John Bonham's drums sound the way they do ....

Once you move the mic away from the speaker, the room starts coming into play.  Unlike your ears, which are attached to a brain that is both capable of ignoring what it doesn't want to hear, plus the psychoacoustic phenomenon of masking, microphones pickup whatever is loudest and/or closest.  If you 've found a sweet spot away from the speaker cabinet, you must either have a very good sounding room, or a very dead room that is not prone to nasty reflections.