I seem to not be able to get along with a strat

[Strat Avenger]

'Need to play more and toughen up your finger tips.

 

[LeoNicecandy]

Curious, is it more chords or single note playing that causes pain on the electric?

Not necessarily the same. I wanted to test lower tension with thicker strings.

Curious: part 1 of multi part Qs: do you play the acoustic standing or sitting for the most part?

TBurst, thanks for the follow up.

Regarding the single note and chords, I feel like it’s both, it’s just my left ring finger doesn’t like the way it contacts the string. Especially doing hammer ons? (If that make sense)

I did give a try on a thicker string set with lower tension earlier today didn’t seem to solve the issue.

I play the acoustic sitting down, and the Strat as well.

 

[LeoNicecandy]

'Need to play more and toughen up your finger tips.

Hey, thanks for the advice. I do play 4-5 hours a day maybe not a lot to many people. 4-5 hours on a acoustic guitar with heavier gauge strings, and since I play a lot of blues, I do bends on the acoustic as well.

Maybe it’s me being ignorant, though I think the finger tips are not weak… but again just like us human, can’t hurt to toughen up even more.

 

[LeoNicecandy]

Is your technique different on the Strat somehow? Playing new styles of music, more bends / vibrato, playing for longer periods of time, etc?

I can’t think of any reason an electric guitar would injure you over an acoustic, as the human hand is wonderfully adaptable. Plenty of folks who can switch between guitar, banjo, mandolin - wildly different shapes and constructions. Hard to believe two guitars of radically similar specification could be the culprit.

Thanks Hodgo for chiming in.

From my own observations I would like to like think my technique is the same when I play the Strat, but it could be biased and I need to pay attention to that. Nope, same thing I play on the Strat, and actually shorter periods of time, since it hurts me to play longer….

I really understand the reason of why you are puzzled by this strange encounter that I have, I honestly think the same, somehow just for me it legitimately hurts me to play my Strat, and I love the way it sounds. Just seems like I can’t get along with it. Again I know this seems insane….

I did want to post this at first because I thought one day I would figure out, but I realized I need people’s input and experience to help me.

 

[LeoNicecandy]

Guys, would you think the neck not properly sit in the neck pocket would be one possible culprit?

 

[jjwu]

^Anything's possible. Is the low or high E too close to the edge? Are you not able to get a comfy action with slight neck relief?

I did initially ask my tech to setup the guitar, though I think the nut slots could be lower.
For strings I’m using Ernie Ball super slinky. I might get a set of Elixir and see how it feels!

I think you should try Stringjoy. For wound smoothness I feel it's Stringjoy > Daddario > Ernie Ball. Though if it's the plains giving you a problem I dunno.

Maybe you're pushing down too hard since the strings are lighter?

Are you using "balanced tension" strings? They're great on paper, but years of muscle memory make me expect a lighter B string than E string and I struggle a bit if they're "balanced." (Stringjoy is all about balanced tension but you can make your own set for an extra buck. D'addario balanced tension also feels weird because they equalize tension all across. Stringjoy has the wounds tighter which feels more natural imo.)

 

[LeoNicecandy]

^Anything's possible. Is the low or high E too close to the edge? Are you not able to get a comfy action with slight neck relief?

I think you should try Stringjoy. For wound smoothness I feel it's Stringjoy > Daddario > Ernie Ball. Though if it's the plains giving you a problem I dunno.

Maybe you're pushing down too hard since the strings are lighter?

Are you using "balanced tension" strings? They're great on paper, but years of muscle memory make me expect a lighter B string than E string and I struggle a bit if they're "balanced." (Stringjoy is all about balanced tension but you can make your own set for an extra buck. D'addario balanced tension also feels weird because they equalize tension all across. Stringjoy has the wounds tighter which feels more natural imo.)

Thank you for sharing.

It doesn’t hurt to try stringjoy, I might order one set and see how it feels.

I don’t use balanced set, I use either daddario or Ernie all 9-42 on my Strat.

On the string alignment thing, I made sure to align the neck with the string as best as I could, by loosing the screw a little and play with the neck a little and then retighten the screws. I think the string are sitting as well-aligned as possible.

 

[NedRyerson]

Next step in troubleshooting: can you visit a music store and just try out different electrics? This is to see if we can isolate the case in a more broad sense. So far, it seems like we've been focusing on the modularity of your Strat, but before exploring any further modifications to that specific guitar, let's see if it's common to all electrics in general.

Try out Strats, Teles, more Gibsons (LPs and SGs), Jacksons, Ibanez, BC Rich, and whatever else you can get your hands on.

If literally none of those resolves the issue, then we may be looking at playing position (thinner body electric and how it sits on your body vs. thicker acoustic). On the other....uh....hand (sorry), if one of those is noticeably more comfortable to play, then you have a new data point to consider: what's different about that instrument, no matter how seemingly insignificant?

 

[LeoNicecandy]

Next step in troubleshooting: can you visit a music store and just try out different electrics? This is to see if we can isolate the case in a more broad sense. So far, it seems like we've been focusing on the modularity of your Strat, but before exploring any further modifications to that specific guitar, let's see if it's common to all electrics in general.

Try out Strats, Teles, more Gibsons (LPs and SGs), Jacksons, Ibanez, BC Rich, and whatever else you can get your hands on.

If literally none of those resolves the issue, then we may be looking at playing position (thinner body electric and how it sits on your body vs. thicker acoustic). On the other....uh....hand (sorry), if one of those is noticeably more comfortable to play, then you have a new data point to consider: what's different about that instrument, no matter how seemingly insignificant?

Hey Ned, that is very helpful and encouraging information.

I will be going to the local shop later this week.
I have some data on what electrics I can play for now, I can play Musicman JP models (JP6and majesty)all day long and no pain whatsoever, they are really therapeutic in a sense to my fingers.

I can play Les Paul studio 2015. (my first electric FYI: that guitar was heavy as a bad boy, not setup well still it plays awesome for me no pain) I had one experience with playing a tele which was brought to me by my guitar teacher one time and it played well, although a short amount of duration.

Like you suggested, I will go and try more and I want to keep trying. Will let you know.

Edited: by the way I also had 2 other strats that’s I could bond with, a customshop 63 Strat reissue, a prs silver sky. Just for information.

 

[TBurst Std]

Hmm more info. For this item it would be best to get some assistance.

Take your acoustic in a sitting playing position. Now take 4 measurements:
Top of left shoulder to the 1st fret.
Now the height distance from the top of shoulder to the E string at first fret.

Repeat with Strat.
Bet there’s a difference. I’ve been thinking this is an ergonomic issue from the beginning.

 

[LeoNicecandy]

Hmm more info. For this item it would be best to get some assistance.

Take your acoustic in a sitting playing position. Now take 4 measurements:
Top of left shoulder to the 1st fret.
Now the height distance from the top of shoulder to the E string at first fret.

Repeat with Strat.
Bet there’s a difference. I’ve been thinking this is an ergonomic issue from the beginning.

Thanks mate.

That’s what I was wondering as well, could it be the way that the guitar sit or should I say the way it relates to my body? It’s more of a ergonomic issue maybe?

I’ll check it and get the measurements.

 

[Hodgo]

I’m overly invested now because this is interesting.
Did you mean to say heavier strings / lower tension? A thicker string will have the opposite effect of more tension to the same pitch.

You mentioned cowboy chords and hammer ons, but your Petrucci guitars are therapeutic, so I think we should focus on those.

I would love to know exactly what specs differ between your Majesty and your Strat along the string path. Break angle at nut, nut spacing, nut width, nut slot height, action, relief, neck thickness, neck shape, amount of fretboard rollover, quality of nut and saddle slotting and lubrication, type of trem, break angle at trem.

I will eat my hat if you dial in everything identical and it’s still a problem. Block the trem off too, cause who knows!

 

[LeoNicecandy]

I’m overly invested now because this is interesting.
Did you mean to say heavier strings / lower tension? A thicker string will have the opposite effect of more tension to the same pitch.

You mentioned cowboy chords and hammer ons, but your Petrucci guitars are therapeutic, so I think we should focus on those.

I would love to know exactly what specs differ between your Majesty and your Strat along the string path. Break angle at nut, nut spacing, nut width, nut slot height, action, relief, neck thickness, neck shape, amount of fretboard rollover, quality of nut and saddle slotting and lubrication, type of trem, break angle at trem.

I will eat my hat if you dial in everything identical and it’s still a problem. Block the trem off too, cause who knows!

Hey Hodgo thanks for the follow up, and investing your time in this.

Yes a heavier gauge with half step tuned down (Eb). Now I think the string gauge is out of the equation. I think regarding specs the following is what I can tell.

Nut width is the same
JP 1-11/16 Strat1-11/16
Action: almost identical. I tried higher and lower actions on my Strat, ruled out that action being a factor.
Relief: Almost identical

Neck dimensions: JP is thinner than my Strat, both are C shaped, although the difference in thickness between the two neck are really really close I think the JP is 0.78-0.82ish? Strat is 0.80-0.85. The JP is more rolled along the fretboard compare to the neck on the Strat. The break angle on both tremolo are the same I think? They are both decked to the body.

Nut
The nut on the Strat is cut by warmoth, I think the slots are good? I understand warmoth is a guitar part company, therefore I think the nut could use an upgrade or cut by a luthier. Also, the nut slots could definitely be lower on the Strat.

Spacing
The JP is 10.8mm spaced between strings on the bridge whereas the Strat is 10.5mm although I have tried a 10.8mm bridge on the Strat as well (didn’t solve the issue)

The trem
JP has their own branded, it’s semi recessed
Start: 6 screw synchronized (non-recessed)

I wish I have the luthier skills to dial them in on my own, but I don’t. Would cast a lot to ask my luthier to do these though. I don’t know if that worth a try.

 

[Hodgo]

Hey Hodgo thanks for the follow up, and investing your time in this.

Yes a heavier gauge with half step tuned down (Eb). Now I think the string gauge is out of the equation. I think regarding specs the following is what I can tell.

Nut width is the same
JP 1-11/16 Strat1-11/16
Action: almost identical. I tried higher and lower actions on my Strat, ruled out that action being a factor.
Relief: Almost identical

Neck dimensions: JP is thinner than my Strat, both are C shaped, although the difference in thickness between the two neck are really really close I think the JP is 0.78-0.82ish? Strat is 0.80-0.85. The JP is more rolled along the fretboard compare to the neck on the Strat. The break angle on both tremolo are the same I think? They are both decked to the body.

Nut
The nut on the Strat is cut by warmoth, I think the slots are good? I understand warmoth is a guitar part company, therefore I think the nut could use an upgrade or cut by a luthier. Also, the nut slots could definitely be lower on the Strat.

Spacing
The JP is 10.8mm spaced between strings on the bridge whereas the Strat is 10.5mm although I have tried a 10.8mm bridge on the Strat as well (didn’t solve the issue)

The trem
JP has their own branded, it’s semi recessed
Start: 6 screw synchronized (non-recessed)

I wish I have the luthier skills to dial them in on my own, but I don’t. Would cast a lot to ask my luthier to do these though. I don’t know if that worth a try.

Okay. So biggest differences are rolled edges, nut slots, and trem type.

If it’s an unfinished fretboard, you can roll the fretboard edges with a razor. The nut should be professionally finished if it’s a Warmoth. The break angle at the nut is fairly fixed except for raising the string tree, but maybe?

Decked trem can be ruled out, so I’d say nut is the culprit (and it always is in funny situations)

 

[Strat Avenger]

Hey, thanks for the advice. I do play 4-5 hours a day maybe not a lot to many people. 4-5 hours on a acoustic guitar with heavier gauge strings, and since I play a lot of blues, I do bends on the acoustic as well.

Maybe it’s me being ignorant, though I think the finger tips are not weak… but again just like us human, can’t hurt to toughen up even more.

It was a joke.

 

[jjwu]

Ahhh so we're not talking about a "Strat" but a Warmoth partscaster. And the nut slots being too high could def be a problem. I recently removed the tiny shim under my locking nut and was blown away by how much easier it plays and also surprised by no extra buzz.

Side note: does Warmoth cut the slots assuming their biggest frets even if you order smaller ones? That'd make sense in terms of cost/production/efficiency.

Sounds like it just needs some TLC.

 

[LeoNicecandy]

Ahhh so we're not talking about a "Strat" but a Warmoth partscaster. And the nut slots being too high could def be a problem. I recently removed the tiny shim under my locking nut and was blown away by how much easier it plays and also surprised by no extra buzz.

Side note: does Warmoth cut the slots assuming their biggest frets even if you order smaller ones? That'd make sense in terms of cost/production/efficiency.

Sounds like it just needs some TLC.

Yes, you are right! It’s a partscaster. I will go ask my tech to get the slots lower. TLC

I think warmoth cut their slots base on the size of the frets. (Completely judging from experience) Since I had a 59 round back with 6150 frets, and the slots are much lower on that neck compared to the one I have now which is a standard thin with 6100 jumbo frets. It’s a 2 sample sized conclusion.

 

[LeoNicecandy]

Okay. So biggest differences are rolled edges, nut slots, and trem type.

If it’s an unfinished fretboard, you can roll the fretboard edges with a razor. The nut should be professionally finished if it’s a Warmoth. The break angle at the nut is fairly fixed except for raising the string tree, but maybe?

Decked trem can be ruled out, so I’d say nut is the culprit (and it always is in funny situations)

Thanks, that is very helpful info.

It’s an unfinished fretboard, I’m not most comfortable in doing it myself, will ask my guy do it for me. The nut slots situation is a relatively easier fix so will start there!

One question, would you recommend getting a new nut, or should I just deepen the current one?

 

[Tretgeraet]

Side note: does Warmoth cut the slots assuming their biggest frets even if you order smaller ones?

I don't think so, because you cannot order a nut, when the fret size ("slots only") is not specified.

@LeoNicecandy is it a finished (maple) fretboard on your strat?

EDIT: Nevermind, you just wrote that.

Either way, could you post a picture of the guitar in question?

 

[LeoNicecandy]

I don't think so, because you cannot order a nut, when the fret size ("slots only") is not specified.

@LeoNicecandy is it a finished (maple) fretboard on your strat?

EDIT: Nevermind, you just wrote that.

Either way, could you post a picture of the guitar in question?

Thanks for chiming in!

Will do hold on a sec.