How many of you use this?

[mayfly]

Anyone ever noticed that if you pumped half a tank of 87 and half a tank of 91, you'd get 89 at a cheaper rate than if you bought just straight 89?

Now that's interesting...

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Anyone ever noticed that if you pumped half a tank of 87 and half a tank of 91, you'd get 89 at a cheaper rate than if you bought just straight 89?

Now that's interesting...

Just filled up.  I know, I know, stop the presses!  Anywho:
87 @ $3.619
89 @ $3.769
93 @ $3.919

So, 89 octane is 2 parts 87, 1 part 93.
    or (87+87+93)/3 = 89
    and (3.619+3.619+3.919)/3 = 3.719

So, make you own 89 octane and save $.05 a gallon, or make your own 90 octane for the 89 price.

 

[OzziePete]

From an indepth discussion I had with a very knowledgeable bus mechanic at work on NYE (he actually has accreditation for aircraft engines and huge mining engines too)....I would not fuel a vehicle with anything containing ethanol UNLESS the car manufacturer's manual specifically states that that particular engine can handle ethanol to that level.

We have an E10 fuel that is cheaper at the pump available here in Australia, and folks are finding that their engines initally take to it, but it wears out all sorts of components (long term problems) within the engine fuel system if the whole engine wasn't designed for it and the engine tuned for it.

E85 'Flex' engines are made to handle the ethaol, a lot - or maybe even MOST - Australian engines are not.

My own car is a  that has done over 240000 kilometres of mostly freeway travel and it loves a high octane lead free fuel (98 octane). High compression 1.6 litre engine. Wouldn't dare let E10 near it.

i hate to argue with your knowledgable friend but "made to handle" something is very vague, now i do agree that long term use may be bad for the engine and i dont recomend storage with e85 in a non flexfuel car as i have seen what ethonol race fuels can do to an engine (holds moisture) but being that misawa air base provides it to residents numbering over 12000 meaning several thousand cars that are not and never were designed for e85 are running on it full time with no ill effects aside from less than optimal milage and lower running temperatures i think most of us are fine to put e85 in our non flex fuel vehicles. there is some fear that the ethenol is corosive to fuel system components but i never saw any fuel system problems caused by it. and there may also be cold start problems but i can say misawa is very cold in the winter and i never encountered an issue, just some rough idle on cold or rainy days but a higher heat range on the sparkplugs fixed that.

also 98octane is high for gasoline. just how high is the compression on that thing? not that that matters without knowing how the cam is phased and the ignition curve. judging from the horsepower numbers i see on the internet  there shouldn't be a need for 90+ octane unless these are lower speed higher efficientcy engines than seen in other countries. if austrailian engines need that kind of octane they seem like exactly the right type of engines to run on e85 which is about 105 octane. 

You obviously have some knowledge about engines etc. & I can't discuss this properly as I am at a disadvantage of not being able to talk technical with you.....The fuel I put into my Fiesta is called Premium 98 Octane.....the understanding is that it is 98 octane fuel. I have discussed my use of 98 fuel with both Melbourne - the guy I work with, and the guy who does the tuning etc on my car and both have said it is the better fuel for me to use because of the type of driving I do and the type of engine it is.. I gain better mileage per tankload using Premium 98 and the performance is slightly better. The guy who tunes my car says the engine is in great shape after doing 240,000 kilometres , so something must be right.

Australia has unleaded 91 Octane fuel, then a premium unleaded grade that is 95 octane, then this Premium 98 octane (also unleaded). Over the last few years we have introduced E10 which is 90% fuel and supposedly 10% ethanol. Australia has a domestic car manufacturing industry which is a bit of a dinosaur at times, and unless the likes of Holden and Ford wanna change things, they will lobby Government to stop innovations coming in like the Flex engines. Holden has an association with General Motors ( I think they are still owned by them) while Ford Australia is a part of the Ford group.

The discussion that took place on New Years Eve with Melbourne and another guy who used to do maintenance work on small prop aircraft (but decided to drive buses for a living for the less hassle) was way over my head in some aspects. But Melbourne has some a fine Harley Davidson motorbike as well as a couple of commuter bikes and the irregularities in the fuel avialable is driving him nuts. Because he is  a mechanic and people know him, he does get approached by his neighbours etc about the problems they have with ther cars. He spoke of people being advised by sales people etc. that is was OK to use E10 (it's a cheaper fuel and a sales pitch I guess), only to have these people say the car was having engine problems a couple of years down the track. Thre has also been a push by the oil companies to do away with 91 Unleaded and just go with either E10 or Premium 95 as the base fuel. My car can handle Premium 85 but it doesn't have the same performance and my fuel usage is higher. If was doing commuting regularly to and from work in city traffic I would probably use Premium 95 but as I am on a freeway for the most part of my trip to and from work, the 98 is a better fuel for me.

 

[AutoBat]

nearly all the fuel stations i ever see have 10 cent spread between fuel grades, so half low & half high would be the same as a full tank of mid

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

nearly all the fuel stations i ever see have 10 cent spread between fuel grades, so half low & half high would be the same as a full tank of mid

Not at the one I was at.  The price spread was in even increments, but the octane wasn't.  There was 30 cents between high and low with the mid at 15 cents difference but the mid octane was less than half the difference.  It proportionately costs more for mid.

 

[Jusatele]

Ozzie, can you clarify something for me
is the octane rating system you guys use RON or MON,  we use a RON + MON / 2 system here, and 98 sounds high to us in the USA

 

[Dan025]

From an indepth discussion I had with a very knowledgeable bus mechanic at work on NYE (he actually has accreditation for aircraft engines and huge mining engines too)....I would not fuel a vehicle with anything containing ethanol UNLESS the car manufacturer's manual specifically states that that particular engine can handle ethanol to that level.

We have an E10 fuel that is cheaper at the pump available here in Australia, and folks are finding that their engines initally take to it, but it wears out all sorts of components (long term problems) within the engine fuel system if the whole engine wasn't designed for it and the engine tuned for it.

E85 'Flex' engines are made to handle the ethaol, a lot - or maybe even MOST - Australian engines are not.

My own car is a  that has done over 240000 kilometres of mostly freeway travel and it loves a high octane lead free fuel (98 octane). High compression 1.6 litre engine. Wouldn't dare let E10 near it.

i hate to argue with your knowledgable friend but "made to handle" something is very vague, now i do agree that long term use may be bad for the engine and i dont recomend storage with e85 in a non flexfuel car as i have seen what ethonol race fuels can do to an engine (holds moisture) but being that misawa air base provides it to residents numbering over 12000 meaning several thousand cars that are not and never were designed for e85 are running on it full time with no ill effects aside from less than optimal milage and lower running temperatures i think most of us are fine to put e85 in our non flex fuel vehicles. there is some fear that the ethenol is corosive to fuel system components but i never saw any fuel system problems caused by it. and there may also be cold start problems but i can say misawa is very cold in the winter and i never encountered an issue, just some rough idle on cold or rainy days but a higher heat range on the sparkplugs fixed that.

also 98octane is high for gasoline. just how high is the compression on that thing? not that that matters without knowing how the cam is phased and the ignition curve. judging from the horsepower numbers i see on the internet  there shouldn't be a need for 90+ octane unless these are lower speed higher efficientcy engines than seen in other countries. if austrailian engines need that kind of octane they seem like exactly the right type of engines to run on e85 which is about 105 octane.  

You obviously have some knowledge about engines etc. & I can't discuss this properly as I am at a disadvantage of not being able to talk technical with you.....The fuel I put into my Fiesta is called Premium 98 Octane.....the understanding is that it is 98 octane fuel. I have discussed my use of 98 fuel with both Melbourne - the guy I work with, and the guy who does the tuning etc on my car and both have said it is the better fuel for me to use because of the type of driving I do and the type of engine it is.. I gain better mileage per tankload using Premium 98 and the performance is slightly better. The guy who tunes my car says the engine is in great shape after doing 240,000 kilometres , so something must be right.

Australia has unleaded 91 Octane fuel, then a premium unleaded grade that is 95 octane, then this Premium 98 octane (also unleaded). Over the last few years we have introduced E10 which is 90% fuel and supposedly 10% ethanol. Australia has a domestic car manufacturing industry which is a bit of a dinosaur at times, and unless the likes of Holden and Ford wanna change things, they will lobby Government to stop innovations coming in like the Flex engines. Holden has an association with General Motors ( I think they are still owned by them) while Ford Australia is a part of the Ford group.

The discussion that took place on New Years Eve with Melbourne and another guy who used to do maintenance work on small prop aircraft (but decided to drive buses for a living for the less hassle) was way over my head in some aspects. But Melbourne has some a fine Harley Davidson motorbike as well as a couple of commuter bikes and the irregularities in the fuel avialable is driving him nuts. Because he is  a mechanic and people know him, he does get approached by his neighbours etc about the problems they have with ther cars. He spoke of people being advised by sales people etc. that is was OK to use E10 (it's a cheaper fuel and a sales pitch I guess), only to have these people say the car was having engine problems a couple of years down the track. Thre has also been a push by the oil companies to do away with 91 Unleaded and just go with either E10 or Premium 95 as the base fuel. My car can handle Premium 85 but it doesn't have the same performance and my fuel usage is higher. If was doing commuting regularly to and from work in city traffic I would probably use Premium 95 but as I am on a freeway for the most part of my trip to and from work, the 98 is a better fuel for me.

ok well i was just talking to my brother, and realized i overlooked something. ther eare 3 types of pctane ratings. well there are two types of tests and in america we average the results. there is research octane and motor octane rating american gas pumps have the r+m/2 sometimes labled as RON+MON/2 as the advertised ratings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
if you are using the ron number then those numbers are more reasonable and similar to what the ron would hav been in the us a few years abo when 93 octane was more common. i still think the 95 is fine for your engine, depends on how hot in is in austrailia. 98 wont hurt it.

as for engine problems down the road with e10, well i dont see too much unless the car sits, it does hold some moisture and will kill cylinders and valve seats on vehicles that are stored for long periods so vehicles need to be treated before they ar e parked. e85 is much worse. but may vehicles run many years with e10 and e15 in america, most people dont even know that they are running them and i cant think of a gas station  has fuels that are not mixxed with ethonol. with e85 you can run for a few years as i observed living on misawas airbase, but you should not store a car with it in the fuel system. also for best results change the oil more often and only run it if you are sure the engine still has a good ring seal. also if there are any fears about running it you can mix it down as well as alternate between e85 and conventional fuels. if you plan a permanant modification to run e85 full time with less loss of efficientcy then you should run the best motor oil you can as well as only do this with an engine that has a good ring seal, no beaters for full time on e85, alcohol will wash the oil off the cylinders and create extra cylinder wear, this wont be excessive if you alternate fuels or run cylinder lube in the fuel. on an engine with poor ring seal it will wash the oil off the wrist pin causing failure and dilute the oil with fuel.

maybe i made it seem a little too safe in my previous post, i guess i demonstration that it will run and not cause short term problems, even run for 5+ years. my engines dont last 5 years before i get tired of them in my monte carlo, i dont always think about peole that buy new cars and run them for 10 or more years and hope to still get money back at that point.

 

[OzziePete]

Ozzie, can you clarify something for me
is the octane rating system you guys use RON or MON,  we use a RON + MON / 2 system here, and 98 sounds high to us in the USA

AFAIK Australia uses a RON rating for octane...

 

[OzziePete]

Dan025: Your last post mentioning the car sitting and moisture, reminds me of what Melbourne was talking about. He was saying there's a risk of corrosion within the engine. I think (and don't quote me on this - as I say I am not an expert and was just joining in on a very technical conversation) he was saying (something similar to..) the ethanol tends to remove the lubricant in parts where it is needed and the engine parts corrode, causing engine failure and/or moisture sitting within the engine without proper lubricant to protect the parts. Also the ethanol creates problems with starting the engine on cold days. Australia also has LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) in  fleets of taxis and a number of domestic vehicles, and they are also hard to start on cold days.

 

[Jusatele]

Ozzie, can you clarify something for me
is the octane rating system you guys use RON or MON,  we use a RON + MON / 2 system here, and 98 sounds high to us in the USA

AFAIK Australia uses a RON rating for octane...

well there you go, we are talking apples and oranges, so the numbers will be different a bit.

Just trying to straiten out a few things here. we may be talking similar numbers and not know it

 

[OzziePete]

Ozzie, can you clarify something for me
is the octane rating system you guys use RON or MON,  we use a RON + MON / 2 system here, and 98 sounds high to us in the USA

AFAIK Australia uses a RON rating for octane...

well there you go, we are talking apples and oranges, so the numbers will be different a bit.

Just trying to straiten out a few things here. we may be talking similar numbers and not know it

Here's a  chart that compares the various ratings...Australia uses RON by the looks of it.
http://www.powerchipgroup.com/articles/octane/page_one.html

 

[Jusatele]

now that shows the difference and probably why the discussion went the way it did.