Help on doing trans black on swamp ash

[phred]

Hey Folks,
I'm jonesing for a Swamp Ash strat. I want the finish to be like the Oct 2012 Guitar of the month winner Tele except more like a trans black. Not a glossy finish and I dont want the grain all smoothed over.

How do I do it?

Black grain fill then ebony stain?

 

[jackthehack]

"Ebony" stains may come out more brownish than you'd like.

I think I know what you mean, I'd first fill the grain to the extent you want with black grain filler.

Next get some black dye - I prefer the Mixol dyes available from Woodcraft.com.  Get a swamp ash test board (also available from Woodcarft) and try diluting the black dye with lacquer thinner or mineral spirits, It will require a bit of experimentation before you get the dilution right to effect the exact color you're looking for.

Remember, you can always continue to dye multiple coats to get the body to the shade you want if you start out too dilute, but if you make it too dark to start out with you'll be sanding back. The test board is your friend...

 

[phred]

Thanks for your help.

 

[bagman67]

I followed Jackthehack's directions for Mixol-in-lacquer-thinner/reducer on an ash body with good results (which I later screwed up at the assembly stage).  The black does look good on ash.  Technically I think the Mixol is a pigment suspended in a liquid medium, not a dye, but it gives good results in any case.

 

[phred]

Does the body need to have sanding sealer on it prior to grain filling? How do I prep the body for the stain?

 

[bagman67]

In general terms, go with the schedule below:


Sand to 220
Wipe down with naptha to clear the sanding dust
Stain
Seal
Grain fill
Topcoat

 

[phred]

This is the look I'm going for.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/pickups.jpg

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KJkPmnFI9QSF4ALICJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dmayones%2Bguitars%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701-s%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D5&w=864&h=576&imgurl=christma.nextmp.net%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2Fi%2Fm%2Fimg_4091.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fchristma.nextmp.net%2Findex.php%2Fguitars%2Felectric-guitars%2Fmayones-setius-gtm-6-blakkheim.html&size=162.8+KB&name=%3Cb%3EMayones+%3C%2Fb%3ESetius+GTM+6+Blakkheim+-+Electric+%3Cb%3EGuitars+%3C%2Fb%3E-+%3Cb%3EGuitars%3C%2Fb%3E&p=mayones+guitars&oid=f92e923ddc15b773fe35acc4d66e6a91&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701-s&tt=%253Cb%253EMayones%2B%253C%252Fb%253ESetius%2BGTM%2B6%2BBlakkheim%2B-%2BElectric%2B%253Cb%253EGuitars%2B%253C%252Fb%253E-%2B%253Cb%253EGuitars%253C%252Fb%253E&b=0&ni=21&no=5&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=13137pb8a&sigb=13fionpd3&sigi=139va1t84&.crumb=jJ.Uaw0AtTe

 

[AutoBat]

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KJkPmnFI9QSF4ALICJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dmayones%2Bguitars%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701-s%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D5&w=864&h=576&imgurl=christma.nextmp.net%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2Fi%2Fm%2Fimg_4091.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fchristma.nextmp.net%2Findex.php%2Fguitars%2Felectric-guitars%2Fmayones-setius-gtm-6-blakkheim.html&size=162.8+KB&name=%3Cb%3EMayones+%3C%2Fb%3ESetius+GTM+6+Blakkheim+-+Electric+%3Cb%3EGuitars+%3C%2Fb%3E-+%3Cb%3EGuitars%3C%2Fb%3E&p=mayones+guitars&oid=f92e923ddc15b773fe35acc4d66e6a91&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701-s&tt=%253Cb%253EMayones%2B%253C%252Fb%253ESetius%2BGTM%2B6%2BBlakkheim%2B-%2BElectric%2B%253Cb%253EGuitars%2B%253C%252Fb%253E-%2B%253Cb%253EGuitars%253C%252Fb%253E&b=0&ni=21&no=5&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=13137pb8a&sigb=13fionpd3&sigi=139va1t84&.crumb=jJ.Uaw0AtTe

That behemoth of a link can be shortened like so: http://tinyurl.com/94tvstb
(yes, it's the same link)

 

[swarfrat]

That behemoth of a link can be shortened like so: http://tinyurl.com/94tvstb
(yes, it's the same link)

Even http://christma.nextmp.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/img_4091.jpg is better than the yahoo search api phone book.

Also - you can shorten links like this one on BBCode  - The forum also includes buttons for some of the most frequently used tags above the posting box.

That looks like an opaque black over unfilled swamp ash. There's a few other similar threads.


Transparent black looks more like:

 

[leo12.]

I have to agree with Swarfrat the links you referenced are solid / opaque on ash. No grain
fill. Transparrent is like this
http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=15729.0
If you go solid sand to 320 dust off 2 coats of thinned sealer, light sand between coats, 2  coats opaque black then 3 x clear coats with low sheen clear.
If you go trans black, stain after prep sanding then seal x 2 coats, then low sheen clear.
NO filling, as Jack said some of those stains are Not BLACK  they can be dark greys to dark
browns depending on type & manufacturer. I think the key is to pick a body with good
grain patterning. Like Jack said sample boards are your friend Good luck.

 

[jackthehack]

To get the look of those photos you posted, is pretty easy...

Buy more of the MEK black dye and apply it UNDILUTED directly to the wood without grain filling. You can get the MEK dye concentrate here, probably need 2-3 bottles: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=13524.15

See this thread where I dyed a maple neck with rosewood fretboard jet black this way using MEK dye:

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=13524.15

If you use the dye undiluted it can take a LONG time to completely dry. I'd let it set 2-3 weeks, hit it lightly with a #320 sanding sponge and then apply gloss/stain/matte topcoats as desired.

 

[phred]

I have a bottle of Mixol black, will that work?

 

[jackthehack]

I just tried some Mixol brown undiluted on a piece of pine 2x4, it seems like it will cover, but Lord knows how long it will take to dry; then again it's about 40F here. You might need to do 2 applications and it could take more than 1 bottle to finish the entire body that way.

You might want to try diluting a little bit of it 50/50, again the test board is your friend....

 

[phred]

Thanks again for the help.