Help needed Installing a P-Rails and a DuncanDistortion

[ernzo]

Hello there!

I'm looking for some help, as i dont have much electronic expertise..  :icon_scratch:

The thing is I have a Maverick Chaos guitar, wich has 2 Humbuckers, a 5-way selecter, 1 volume and 1 tone pot..

I want to install a P-Rails SHPR-1 on the neck position, and a Duncan Distortion (SH-6) on the bridge position..

The P-Rails is a Humbucker that can change its function between four modes: Humbucker in Series, Humbucker in Paralel, P-90, Single Coil..

So for this, I want to install a extra 4-way-rotary-switch to control the P-Rails by itself; and at the same time let the original 5-way selecter do the same job it always did..

I think that this way my guitar will win some extra versatility, while retaining its rock guitar nature...

Basically, i need a good tone for lead (bridge hummbucker), similar in a way to what Steve Vai or Satriani has, so i thought the SH-6 would have enough balls for the job, while at the same time sound warm and organic (i've checked the sound samples and i got this impression out of it anyway..)

The P-rails will let the guitar sound more like a Stratocaster if needed, while at the same time giving me a mellow humbucker tone (i hope!), that hopefully will mix good with the bridge position and be useful for jazz-fussion rock-fussion

So far so good.. but this is easier said than done!   :icon_jokercolor:


I have contacted some luthiers in my area (Barcelona-Spain), and most of them tell me that what i want is very hard, or impossible, and that i will have trouble with my actual 5-way selecter, suggesting me to use it only as a 3-way and let the other two positions control the P-Rails..

all wich in my opinion is a bloody mess...

I basically want the guitar to be the same it is now, but i want it to have a separate extra 4-way-rotary-switch to control the P-Rails... this seems the more logical way to me..

Now, i made various pictures of the inner circuit on the guitar, and the guitar itself for if you want to help me out, here they are:

Also here is a representation of the circuit for if you need closer inspection..:

I hope it is clear enough, cause i wouldnt know how to do it better hwhehe  :icon_biggrin:

Here you have an example of an official 2xP-rails wiring with 3 way switch and a on/off-mini-toggle
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2_prails_1v_1t_3w_mini

Now lemme ask you all a couple questions:
-Any of you ever tryed any of these two Seymour Duncan pickups?
-whats your opinion on them?
-Do you think they will match well togheter?

-How should i plug the pickups and the 4-way-rotary-switch in order to get the results i was hoping for?

-Do you think i will have to replace the resistance (2A223J), and adapt the circuit for the impedances/resistances of the new pickups?

-Would the circuit have to be modifyed? In wich way?

-Is the original circuit strange, or is it quite regular? Cause i tryed to figure how to do it, looking at diagramas, and i found nothing even close.. all was based on strat/gibson kinda guitars, but none with 2humbs, 5way switch and 1 volume 1 pot...

Well, THANk YOU a lot in advanced, i will wait for your answers and try to reply asap.. and please excuse my bad english, as i'm spanish and all this is quite abstract..  :redflag:


www.ernz.tk

 

[NQbass7]

So the problem with keeping things "exactly how they are" but adding the 4-way for the P-rails is that the 5-way switch does some coil splitting on the humbuckers.  Your wiring diagram is a little difficult to decipher (and I don't have any experience with that particular 5-way switch), so I'm not sure what options you currently have, but you have to decide what options you want.  (Note: it looks like perhaps THIS is what's going on.) If you're controlling the neck completely separately with a 4-way rotary, then what do you want the 5-way switch to do?  Splitting the neck won't be one of your options anymore.

For example, I'm putting together a tele with P-Rails in the neck and a single-coil in the bridge and a 4-way switch, along with two push-push pots.  So I'm controlling the P-Rails with the push-push pots, and then the 4-way switch determines if I'm selecting bridge only, neck only, bridge and neck in parallel, or bridge and neck in series, regardless of what I have the P-Rails set to do.

It sounds like you probably wouldn't even need P-Rails for what you want - a humbucker with 4-conductor wire (like you already have) might work just fine for getting Strat sound if wired the right way.  And if you need a mellower humbucker, you might try wiring your current ones in parallel and see how that sounds.  The P-Rails have the same four options as every other humbucker, the only difference is that the two single-coils in the humbucker have different character - and since you don't seem too concerned about the P-90 character of them, you might as well use regular humbuckers, and nail the single-coil and humbucker tones better.  Even just wiring in a superswitch instead of the regular five-way would give you other options.

My main advice is instead of starting from some pickups and switches and trying to find a way to fit them together, try starting from what sounds you want and then figure out what you need in order to do that.

 

[drewfx]

It isn't clear to me exactly what you want the 5-way to do in your new scheme. From what I can tell, the existing 5-way looks like it gives you following:
1 Bridge SC
2 Bridge SC + Neck HB
3 Bridge HB + Neck HB
4 Bridge HB + Neck SC
5 Neck SC

The question is, "What do you want each position to be in the new scheme to be, particularly regarding the P-Rails neck PU and it's 4-way switch?"

Depending on the answer to this, it may be possible, but you will definitely need to replace the 5-way blade switch (with another type of 5-way blade that supports more complicated wirings) and also need an appropriate 4-way switch (if you can even find one).

 

[ernzo]

Hey, thanks for the fast reply!

So the problem with keeping things "exactly how they are" but adding the 4-way for the P-rails is that the 5-way switch does some coil splitting on the humbuckers.  Your wiring diagram is a little difficult to decipher (and I don't have any experience with that particular 5-way switch), so I'm not sure what options you currently have, but you have to decide what options you want.  (Note: it looks like perhaps THIS is what's going on.) If you're controlling the neck completely separately with a 4-way rotary, then what do you want the 5-way switch to do?  Splitting the neck won't be one of your options anymore.

hmm thats a good point.. and an awesome diagram you found there!

I was thinkin of the 4 way rotary to get the three basic sounds of the P-rails, plus the humbucker in paralel: Rails, P-90, Full Humbucker in Series, Full Humbucker in Paralel..

As you say, at least one of the positions of the original 5-way wont be usable anymore (the 2nd position where it splits the neck humb), but maybe it is possible to retain much of the rest.. you made me think about something on these lines:

1. Full Neck Humb (or wathever the 3/4 way selecter on the P-rails sends at the moment)
2, Neck + Bridge Humb (whatever the P-Rails sends + Bridge Humb)
3. Splitted Bridge Humb
4. Full Bridge Humb
5. Silence

That would be ideal..

It sounds like you probably wouldn't even need P-Rails for what you want - a humbucker with 4-conductor wire (like you already have) might work just fine for getting Strat sound if wired the right way.  And if you need a mellower humbucker, you might try wiring your current ones in parallel and see how that sounds.  The P-Rails have the same four options as every other humbucker, the only difference is that the two single-coils in the humbucker have different character - and since you don't seem too concerned about the P-90 character of them, you might as well use regular humbuckers, and nail the single-coil and humbucker tones better.  Even just wiring in a superswitch instead of the regular five-way would give you other options..

Well i'm not sure of how it is implemented, but i think the guitar right now is giving me that splitted humbucker sound on the 2nd and 4rth position.. Is something good to have sometimes, but not all the time.. it can be used for recording, where you can kill all the hum, eq it, and adjust the volume level; but for live situations is quite useless, as it has a lot of hum, a big volume drop can be heard, and it simply sounds lifeless..


Of the the Rails, the tone i like the most is probably the P-90 cause it sounds quite organic, and i think it will be good for mellow playing.. Then i also have the option to have a usable humbucker or a strat sound, wich can come handy in live situations..

The way i see it, the Neck Pickup it has right now, by itself, is quite useless.. sounds nasal, with detached yet overpowered bass, cant get too mellow, and it cant distort nicely either.. so theres some chances that the P-Rails gives me something i can use more.. if in the end i dont like it, i can sell it on ebay or something, and get any other regular humbucker..

 

[ernzo]

It isn't clear to me exactly what you want the 5-way to do in your new scheme. From what I can tell, the existing 5-way looks like it gives you following:
1 Bridge SC
2 Bridge SC + Neck HB
3 Bridge HB + Neck HB
4 Bridge HB + Neck SC
5 Neck SC

Well i'm not too sure of what exactly the five positions do actually, but when i checked witch a screwdriver (if you touch the magnetic pole with a metallic thing it poduces a sound) i got the impression it does something like this:

1- Full Neck Humb
2.- Splitted Neck Humb (or pehaps in parallel?)
3.- Full Neck + Full Bridge
4.- Splitted Bridge Humb (or pehaps in parallel?)
5.- Full Bridge Humb

Btw, what do you mean by SC? Series Coils?

The question is, "What do you want each position to be in the new scheme to be, particularly regarding the P-Rails neck PU and it's 4-way switch?"

Depending on the answer to this, it may be possible, but you will definitely need to replace the 5-way blade switch (with another type of 5-way blade that supports more complicated wirings) and also need an appropriate 4-way switch (if you can even find one).

As i just said on the previous post i was thinkin on a configuration as follows:

The 4 way rotary will give me the three basic sounds of the P-rails, plus the humbucker in paralel: Rails, P-90, Full Humbucker in Series, Full Humbucker in Paralel..

Then the 5 way selecter would be like this:
1. Full Neck Humb (or wathever the 3/4 way selecter on the P-rails sends at the moment)
2, Neck + Bridge Humb (whatever the P-Rails sends + Bridge Humb)
3. Splitted Bridge Humb
4. Full Bridge Humb
5. Silence

But well, while that looks good on paper, i dont even know if its possible to do

 

[drewfx]

It isn't clear to me exactly what you want the 5-way to do in your new scheme. From what I can tell, the existing 5-way looks like it gives you following:
1 Bridge SC
2 Bridge SC + Neck HB
3 Bridge HB + Neck HB
4 Bridge HB + Neck SC
5 Neck SC

Well i'm not too sure of what exactly the five positions do actually, but when i checked witch a screwdriver (if you touch the magnetic pole with a metallic thing it poduces a sound) i got the impression it does something like this:

1- Full Neck Humb
2.- Splitted Neck Humb (or pehaps in parallel?)
3.- Full Neck + Full Bridge
4.- Splitted Bridge Humb (or pehaps in parallel?)
5.- Full Bridge Humb

Btw, what do you mean by SC? Series Coils?

I mean Single Coil/Split.

I don't understand how you get those combinations from you schematic, but maybe either I'm missing something or you have an unusual switch.

As i just said on the previous post i was thinkin on a configuration as follows:

The 4 way rotary will give me the three basic sounds of the P-rails, plus the humbucker in paralel: Rails, P-90, Full Humbucker in Series, Full Humbucker in Paralel..

Then the 5 way selecter would be like this:
1. Full Neck Humb (or wathever the 3/4 way selecter on the P-rails sends at the moment)
2, Neck + Bridge Humb (whatever the P-Rails sends + Bridge Humb)
3. Splitted Bridge Humb
4. Full Bridge Humb
5. Silence

But well, while that looks good on paper, i dont even know if its possible to do

This is possible with the right kind of switches (as well as lots of other variations). I think what you describe here might even be possible using your existing 5-way, if you switch around positions 3 and 4 (i.e. make "4" the split bridge position).