Help - Hairline cracks in roasted maple headstock

[alspacka]

Hello all, I'm not having a good day. I just installed some vintage-style tuners in a brand new roasted swamp ash maple tele neck. Upon close inspection, I now see that there are two hairline cracks, from tuner hole to edge of headstock, for both high and low E strings. One seems fairly superficial, one extends about halfway down the edge of the headstock. I took it to a guitar tech this morning, he of course said that he could try and get some superglue in the cracks and clamp them, but he suggested I first try to get into contact with Warmoth because, in his opinion, I used an appropriate bit size and drill depth. I also lubricated the screws with paraffin and installed by hand with a small screwdriver. The screws went in easily, so I'm quite surprised by the cracking.

Should I try to contact Warmoth about it, or should I just try and glue it and drill out larger pilot holes? I'm not really concerned about the appearance of the cracks, I'm just concerned with long term stability and durability.

Thanks for any advice.

Photos: https://imgur.com/a/Ai1PI

 

[Cagey]

Sorry to hear that.

I wasn't aware they made necks out of swamp Ash, let alone roasted swamp Ash. I checked the builder and it's not listed as a choice for Tele necks. Could you maybe have meant roasted Maple, and typed swamp Ash by mistake?

If it is roasted Swamp Ash, maybe it gets brittle the same way roasted Maple does. They put a warning in the box about that with those necks, specifically referencing tuner holes, and I'd bet dollars to donut holes if you have a crack from a tuner hole(s), they're going to point that out.

Not all tuner screws are the same. The ones that come with junk vintage tuners like Klusons have a shoulder to them...

...so the screw is wider at the top than it is at the threads. You likely need to drill dual-diameter holes to accommodate them when dealing with super-brittle woods.

But, between email or if you have a cell or VOIP phone, contacting them is essentially free. Ask 'em what they think.

 

[alspacka]

Oops, meant maple, not swamp ash (I got it right in the thread title). It is indeed that type of screw that came with my tuners though they're Gotoh rather than Kluson.

 

[Cagey]

Yours is the second story I've heard of roasted Maple headstocks cracking during tuner installation, and it's pretty distressing. I'm surprised how sensitive they are. I own and have done a number of them now without incident, but I've not had any requests to install that style of tuner and would certainly never put them on anything I owned. But, if I'm ever called to, I guess I'm seriously forewarned now.

 

[dmraco]

I cracked one.  IT was only visible on the back so I did some minor surgery and cut a small piece of maple to run perpendicular thru the crack.  That and some glue it has held for over a year without getting worse.

That being said...I have used two other roasted maple necks and I always drill the pilots just a bit bigger that I do with others.  I have always been in the school of thought to over tighten everything.  I have backed off than mentality especially with the roasted maple.  The screws are not holding the tuners in, only in place.  I also only turn the retaining bolts by hand with a socket that I hold.  No wrench needed.

Can you post a photo of the damage.?

 

[alspacka]

Photos: https://imgur.com/a/Ai1PI

 

[BigSteve22]

Just saw your pix, Bro, that sucks! I'm really surprised that roasted maple is so brittle. Maybe maple is just too hard to begin with. Shame you can't temper wood.....

 

[Cagey]

It can be pretty brittle. Back when I had a wood shop and did a lotta cabinet work, I used to dread routing Maple edges. You'd get toward the end of a project and want to start dressing things up, and halfway though a run, usually on the face/top of something right in front of god and everybody, you'd get a tearout. If you were lucky, you could get the chip and glue it back on, maybe some minor filling/sanding to blend it. Still. Invented a lotta new cuss words...

 

[BigSteve22]

I know what you mean. I would usually bevel cut an edge rout first, getting rid of most of the waste with the saw, and then use the router to do the actual profile. Still had to be real careful of tear out on maple and oak. Still, never had it crack if the screw holes were cut and waxed correctly.

 

[Cagey]

Right, I didn't suffer from screwhole splits, either. Actually, I did split a helluva lotta pine with screws because it was usually so forgiving that I didn't always drill pilot holes unless it was a big screw. But, I usually didn't care, either. Pine was mostly for temporary/disposable things.

 

[stratamania]

Just saw your pix, Bro, that sucks! I'm really surprised that roasted maple is so brittle. Maybe maple is just too hard to begin with. Shame you can't temper wood.....

I really wonder if the maple is being over roasted by the wood suppliers.  There probably is a fine line to conditioning the wood or otherwise.

If I was going to put tuners on a roasted maple neck I probably would choose a variety that avoided the use of screws altogether.

 

[Hendrix]

as vintage-style tuners need to knock in the top "washer", this may be cause it cracks too.

 

[stratamania]

as vintage-style tuners need to knock in the top "washer", this may be cause it cracks too.

That could also happen on normal maple if the hole is too tight for the part.

I certainly would recommend avoiding those on roasted maple.

 

[dmraco]

thats it very similar to mine.  Like I said I used a small chisel and removed material.  I then glued in a piece of maple to size.  The purpose is to hold the two cracked sides together.  One was hidden by tuner.  The other will be visible, but it is small and the alternative it not using the neck.

Mine has been stable for over a year.  I am not sure if it was my fix or that the crack was not then bad.  Worth a try.

BTW, I went about 1/4 of the headstock deep when making the channel.  You can use a tiny router if you have it.  A good sharp chisel worked for me.

 

[BigSteve22]

.....I did split a helluva lotta pine with screws.....

Ain't that the truth! I built a bunch of stuff out of clear pine, mostly colonial style pieces. Got to the point that I stopped using wood screws all together in favor of sheet rock screws. Because they don't have the wider diameter at the top, you can drill a straight, tight, bore, and not need to use those expensive, conical counter sunk bits. And depending on the particular lot of screws you were using, the specialty bit bored holes might not be the best fit anyway!

 

[Cagey]

I'm a big fan of sheet rock screws. They have thin shanks and deep, sharp threads. You can get away with murder with those things. Plus, they're cheap as dirt. For many things, a glue joint would be just as strong or stronger, so you do that and throw in a couple drywall screws to use as clamps, and you're good to go.

 

[aarontunes]

Sorry to hear about this problem alspacka! Roasted Maple definitely requires extra care when it comes to drilling guide-holes. They definitely need to be larger than the guide-holes one would drill on other species of wood. (I guess Roasted Maple isn't a unique species. Let me reword: "...other types of wood.")

We include a piece of paper with every Roasted Maple neck admonishing people to use caution. For those who have not read it, it's worth repeating here:

Congratulations on your purchase of a Warmoth Roasted Maple neck! Your new neck is built from one of the most stable woods available. This inherent stability means that no finish is required. When played this way, Roasted Maple necks deliver the ultra-fast, satiny feel many players love. Their signature tone is bright and clear, similar to standard Maple. They also boast a deep caramel color, for a beautifully aged look right out of the box.

Enjoying the benefits of Roasted Maple does require some extra care during assembly. It is not as forgiving as standard Maple. If you try to force screws and tuner bushings into inadequately or improperly drilled guide holes, Roasted Maple is more likely to split. Extra caution is required.

Screw guide-holes should be drilled one size larger than normal. Be especially cautious of wood screws with a wider banded area at the end of the shank (like those supplied with Kluson tuners), which require a two-step-drilled hole. When installing tuner bushings, you should be able to push them easily into place, by hand. Measure carefully, don’t force anything, and your build is sure to be a success.

We hope you enjoy your new Roasted Maple neck! It was built to last a lifetime.


Also check out this blog post about drilling guide holes that I wrote a while back. It has some useful info.

 

[alspacka]

Sorry to hear about this problem alspacka! Roasted Maple definitely requires extra care when it comes to drilling guide-holes. They definitely need to be larger than the guide-holes one would drill on other species of wood. (I guess Roasted Maple isn't a unique species. Let me reword: "...other types of wood.")

Do you have any advice on next steps? Would you recommend attempting to use glue?

I cracked one.  IT was only visible on the back so I did some minor surgery and cut a small piece of maple to run perpendicular thru the crack.  That and some glue it has held for over a year without getting worse.

Thanks for the reply. What was the size and shape of the maple piece? Was it a butterfly or just a block?

 

[aarontunes]

Just saw your pix, Bro, that sucks! I'm really surprised that roasted maple is so brittle. Maybe maple is just too hard to begin with. Shame you can't temper wood.....

This is kind of a dumb metaphor, but I like to use it: Maple vs Roasted Maple is sort of like bread vs toast.


Imagine a regular old piece of white bread. It's not very stable. If you try to hold it horizontally by one edge, it flops over. OTOH, it's very pliable. You can bend it in half, and it stays together. Lightly drag a thumbnail across it, and it stays together.


However, if you toast that slice of bread, it becomes much more stable. Hold it horizontally by and edge, and it stays rigid. The trade-off is that it is now more brittle. Bend it in half and it breaks. Drag a thumbnail lightly across it, and crumbs fall off.


The changes that maple undergoes when roasted are obviously nowhere near as extreme as a piece of toast, but hopefully you can kind of see what I'm getting at.

 

[dmraco]

Sorry to hear about this problem alspacka! Roasted Maple definitely requires extra care when it comes to drilling guide-holes. They definitely need to be larger than the guide-holes one would drill on other species of wood. (I guess Roasted Maple isn't a unique species. Let me reword: "...other types of wood.")

Do you have any advice on next steps? Would you recommend attempting to use glue?

I cracked one.  IT was only visible on the back so I did some minor surgery and cut a small piece of maple to run perpendicular thru the crack.  That and some glue it has held for over a year without getting worse.

Thanks for the reply. What was the size and shape of the maple piece? Was it a butterfly or just a block?

It was not too big.  Maybe a bit thicker than a toothpick