Help from Handgun Enthusiasts

[RLW]

Paul Kantner once told a story about the night two cokeheads broke into the bottom floor of his house in San Francisco in 1970. Jorma had given him a 1911 .45 a few months earlier, so he grabbed it and headed downstairs. He got about halfway down and heard the two nimrods fumbling about, so he slowly pulled the slide back, and let it slam forward. His description of what followed;

"It's a unique sound, actually a uniquely American sound. Sounds like nothing else on the planet. It instantly gets people's attention, and they know exactly what's about to happen."

Druggies "We were just leavin', man."

Kantner "Sounds like an excellent idea."

Considering Kaukonen and Kantner's relationship over the years, even continuing to this day, it's a miracle that Jorma gave Paul the gun instead of emptying the clip into his chest. Jefferson Airplane Loves You, but they REALLY hate each other.

 

[DangerousR6]

Paul Kantner once told a story about the night two cokeheads broke into the bottom floor of his house in San Francisco in 1970. Jorma had given him a 1911 .45 a few months earlier, so he grabbed it and headed downstairs. He got about halfway down and heard the two nimrods fumbling about, so he slowly pulled the slide back, and let it slam forward. His description of what followed;

"It's a unique sound, actually a uniquely American sound. Sounds like nothing else on the planet. It instantly gets people's attention, and they know exactly what's about to happen."

Druggies "We were just leavin', man."

Kantner "Sounds like an excellent idea."

Considering Kaukonen and Kantner's relationship over the years, even continuing to this day, it's a miracle that Jorma gave Paul the gun instead of emptying the clip into his chest. Jefferson Airplane Loves You, but they REALLY hate each other.

That's why I keep one in the chamber of my .45, I get the element of surprise...Cause someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night and I hear them, someones leaving in a body bag. And it ain't gonna be me...

 

[RLW]

DR6 wrote...

"That's why I keep one in the chamber of my .45, I get the element of surprise...Cause someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night and I hear them, someones leaving in a body bag. And it ain't gonna be me..."

Like you, I kinda live in the sticks. Calling 911 is not my first reaction to trouble. My little town has an outstandingly good police chief, but his people can only cover so much ground in so much time. Five minutes is an excellent response time, depending on which end of the problem you're dealing with.

Kantner had an excellent point about sound, though. Nothing can clear out a parking lot full of angry drunks like the sound of a pump shotgun being chambered. And, I speak from experience on that one.

 

[-CB-]

Jack, really, there have been no significant improvements to the 1911 before WWII, or after 1911, for that matter.  Everything anyone ever did was for ergonomics or improved sight picture, the mechanics of it stay the same.

If you want to shoot something to eat - carry a rifle or a shotgun.
If you want to defend yourself - there is no better choice than a 1911

The only thing I'd change over Jack's outstandingly clear logic, is to use the venerable "flying ashtray" 200g hollow point Speer bullets, loaded to about 975fps.   More is not better.   The icing on the cake is firing a .45acp handgun at night (when you're most likely to need it).  Amazingly, almost all loadings, and every factory loading I've tried, produce almost zero muzzle flash.  Try that with a .44mag.  You wont be able to see for several seconds... several very long and very iffy seconds. 

It should be intuitively obvious, to even the most casual observer, that there are benefits beyond mere foot-pounds.  Foot pounds are like bolt-on tits.  Anyone can have 'em.  All you need to do is buy them.  But just like a set of silicone bolt-ons, foot-pounds don't mean doodly-squat where the rubber meets the road.

 

[ByteFrenzy]

If you want to shoot something to eat - carry a rifle or a shotgun.
If you want to defend yourself - there is no better choice than a 1911

So if I shoot you with a rifle I'm a cannibal?    :toothy12:

Frankly, I think this is very much like the LP vs Strat discussion: there just isn't a universally applicable answer, it all depends on the context. Yes, the 1911 is probably the best weapon for defensive purposes for somebody who is able and willing to put a lot of time into training with it and with keeping it in optimum condition. But a lot of people realy wont take the trouble of cycling their magazines, and even loaded one below capacity, that spring IS going to go weak with time. The only way to carry a 1911 is condition one, which means both the relevant components of the gun have to be in order but the same also goes for the owner. From that perspective I feel a lot going for the short-barrel large-frame revolver in .45 Colt or even .45 ACP with half moon clips.

And in my opinion, a hunter who puts a lot of time into practice with a .44 Magnum will probably handle a defensive situation a lot better with the same gun loaded with a charge about halfway between .44 Special and factory .44 Magnums, than with a 1911 that just lies in his night table drawer until one nght he needs it.

 

[-CB-]

If you want to shoot something to eat - carry a rifle or a shotgun.
If you want to defend yourself - there is no better choice than a 1911

So if I shoot you with a rifle I'm a cannibal?    :toothy12:

No, actually, it makes you my wildest dream... a human target at which to return fire to.

 

[ByteFrenzy]

You that confident with a 1911 at 300 yards?

 

[jackthehack]

You that confident with a 1911 at 300 yards?

If memory serves me correctly, maximum "effective" range per military spec is 100 meters; but with standard 230 grain military issue FMJ, trajectory drop @ 100 meters is like 2 feet, or something ridiculous like that.  IMHO "real" max effective range is ca. 50 meters, but if you're shooting at targets more than 25 meters, there are more effective tools.

 

[ocguy106]

You that confident with a 1911 at 300 yards?

At 300 yrds we are no longer talking about self defense but murder!! Although I had a 9mm for many years as a home defense gun I think a sawed of shot gun with bird shot or a revoler actuall make the best home defense guns, Somthing like a compact .357 with glacier rounds....you don't need to kill everything around you just the intruder.

 

[DangerousR6]

These charts are straight from Guns&Ammo website...

 

[DangerousR6]

You that confident with a 1911 at 300 yards?

At 300 yrds we are no longer talking about self defense but murder!! Although I had a 9mm for many years as a home defense gun I think a sawed of shot gun with bird shot or a revoler actuall make the best home defense guns, Somthing like a compact .357 with glacier rounds....you don't need to kill everything around you just the intruder.

So true,  in the state of Texas there is a point at which the intruder becomes a victim, if the intruder flees and is pursued beyond property boundaries..

Glacier rounds are suppose to be some of the best self defense rounds, I have Federal Hydra-shoks in all my pistols...Got 3 .40's and a .45 in the nightstand...

 

[Shmoopie]

measure your picks while your at it   :redflag:

You're just jelious cause they won't let you have guns in the insane assylum... :icon_biggrin:

Shhhh! What the nurses don't know won't hurt them, but it is really hard to holster in a straitjacket.

 

[-CB-]

ByteFrenzy said "You that confident with a 1911 at 300 yards?"

I've had the great opportunity and experience to shoot handguns at long range. 

Three hundred yards...  we used to shoot egrets at about that range with 38 special wadcutters~~ It was like raining mortars on them!

But you've made my point - which is - you gonna shoot long and far, shoot a rifle.  You needa cap that splib with the machete, grab yer .45.   Splibs being what they are, they dance, move fast, jump, and roll... even with machetes, especially when a .45 is aimed at their puss.  So the quick recovery,. added shots and quick loading do make for a happy someone.

(edited ... quote added, I dunno why it didn't come in the first time)

 

[DangerousR6]

I've had the great opportunity and experience to shoot handguns at long range. 

Three hundred yards...  we used to shoot egrets at about that range with 38 special wadcutters~~ It was like raining mortars on them!

But you've made my point - which is - you gonna shoot long and far, shoot a rifle.  You needa cap that splib with the machete, grab yer .45.   Splibs being what they are, they dance, move fast, jump, and roll... even with machetes, especially when a .45 is aimed at their puss.  So the quick recovery,. added shots and quick loading do make for a happy someone.

 

[ognolman]

You that confident with a 1911 at 300 yards?

At 300 yrds we are no longer talking about self defense but murder!! Although I had a 9mm for many years as a home defense gun I think a sawed of shot gun with bird shot or a revoler actuall make the best home defense guns, Somthing like a compact .357 with glacier rounds....you don't need to kill everything around you just the intruder.

I have a youth model 20ga pump for just this purpose.  And I taught my wife to use it.

JBD