Headless bass ideas

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Just kickin' around some ideas, but what if I were to get a straight paddle headstock and slap on the Hipshot headless system.  I figure a bit of dremeling & drilling would be all that's needed to get the headpiece unit on there, then chop off the rest of the paddle.  Obviously, I'd have to make the body myself (or have one made) to be compatible with that bridge.  Or would it be that simple?

Similarly, I was looking at how the Kramer "The Duke" bass (scroll down a bit to see the model, or google around) is set up - with a brass tailpiece at the nut, and strings over barrel saddles, then the tuners.  I'm thinking the paddle head neck, build my own body with extra space at the end for the tuners (which would probably have to be recessed a bit to keep pressure on the saddles), then get someone to build a brass or steel nut assembly and either have them put in a nut, or have them install a zero fret.  Assuming I could find such a luthier, that is...

How feasable are either of those ideas - any thoughts?  Has anyone done anything with the paddle headstocks to make a guess if it's possible?  I haven't seen any headless works in the forum, at least not any with pics or details on the build, but has anyone else done something similar?

 

[Eric Banjitar]

I like the paddle cut-off idea.  I dont think that it would be too hard. Careful cutting and drilling. Practice on scraps...you know the deal.

I also think that with basic wood-working tools (circular saw, wood glue and clamps), a pretty good router with sharp bits, lots of planning and a dash of determination you could make the body by yourself.

It also may be possible to purchase the parts you need from Kramer.  Have you checked around?  Machining parts can get pricey quick.

I say go for it.  There have been a lot more crazy ideas (mine for one) that have been successful from this forum.  Good Luck.

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Oh man, that's exactly what my wallet doesn't need to hear.... :laughing7:

I'm thinking about scaling back my upcoming Fakenbacker build to make budget room for this idea - I could totally stand to have a headless travel sized bass to practice more often.  :doh:

Plus, I recently saw this and drooled mightily.

 

[bagman67]

Plus, I recently saw this and drooled mightily.

That's totally cool.  I won't spoil the surprise for anyone else, but I'll say this - it makes a headless bass suddenly seem like a cool idea.

 

[swarfrat]

It is cool. It makes me ponder a headless all-wound multiscale setup a la banjo, where multiscales come from the set  2^(n/12) thats been rolling around in the brain.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I'm thinking about doing the same thing but with a guitar.  Search on ebay for "headless bass bridge".  There's companies selling bridges setup for this and a bracket for the top of the neck.  The ones from china look pretty cheap though and I don't find any better ones for bass's for you.  Here's what I'm looking at for my guitar: http://www.ebay.com/itm/JCUSTOM-FX-BRIDGE-/110877696417?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d0d361a1 and http://www.ebay.com/itm/Combined-Headpiece-and-String-Adaptor-Steinberger-/110996233439?pt=Guitar&hash=item19d7e41cdf .  I'm thinking about a sort of mini telecaster body with two hum buckers and a 24 fret neck - making the cutout a little deeper more like a soloist.  With that hardware it would be nice and compact and still be a full scale guitar.

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Headless guitar, eh?

That's rare!  I don't know if there's much value to be had as a travel instrument if you're keeping the body wings, but the design is up to you.  There's definitely fewer options for hardware, though.

I just today ordered a deluxe 5 neck, and I will indeed be doing a headless bass with a twist.  The body will be something akin to the Kramer Duke/Hondo Alien, but the head stock will be something like this, with the ferrules & ball ends at the headstock end, with a much smaller headstock and hipshot bridge.  I still haven't decided whether I want to go full on Hipshot headless set, or if I want to do regular tuners done the Kramer Duke style, but I've made up my mind that it's going to be a fretless & headless (or VERY small headed) 5 string.

I'll make sure the process is well chronicled, including the hardware choices I make, since this seems to be well off the beaten path as far as DIY builders go.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Yep, headless guitar.  Here's a thread I started on it with a mockup Photoshop: http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=21442.0 .  That's probably the sixth or seventh version I've thought of as far as the bridge and tuners goes and I think I've got the design I want to try.  I've got enough hardware lying around here that I'll be able to mockup a test rig.  I'll just have to buy a set of those tuners.

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Oh I like that travel guitar! .... I wish there were tuners like that to fit bass strings, because that is just way too cool.  That headless USA site does have a lot of interesting gear too, though it looks like it's mostly Steinberger retrofits rather than for new builds.

Are you planning on staggering the tuners like the pic, or is that up in the air still?  I'd say it's a brilliant idea, I'd just want to VERY carefully measure the spacing & placing, but I'd look at mimicing one of the recessed TOM/string through patterns.  I'd personally go with the angled pattern, but that's just me.  Still, it's a rad idea.  I wouldn't bother with a trem bridge unless you REALLY wanted/needed one, though I do like the fact that it's an ambidextrous bridge (where one could place the trem bar on the 'top' under their right hand, and palm mute & dive simultaneously).

I think what you could probably do is route for a trem cavity, and put everything there, then use a regular trem cover to keep it all in.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I am planning on staggering them like that.  I want the strings to come straight across the bridge and to the tuners.  For spacing purposes and to be able to use the tuners without too much hassle the two rows of tuners need to stagger to skip a string because of the size of the knobs - otherwise I'd have to splay out the strings right at the bridge and I'd be concerned with breaking strings at the bridge.  By staggering them like I've got them shown on the mockup they can be straight across and avoid that problem.

 

[leo12.]

I like your planned build headless & fretless, heres a few parts links on parts idea's,
http://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?sid=a7fb4eb6e015afbe6e5181ff388813fd&sw=abm+headless+5&x=10&y=4
http://www.thomann.de/gb/schaller_3d5_b.htm
The Kramer bridge sure looks like Schaller made them.
That Uber bass link above that Macassar looks fantastic with clear on it, should have put
the Macassar on the front. Good luck don't forget  :kewlpics:
Do all the Hip shot & similar screw tune type bridges require double ball end strings?

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Do all the Hip shot & similar screw tune type bridges require double ball end strings?

Happily, new aftermarket headless systems don't require double ball ends - the Hipshot & ABM systems both allow single or double, and even the new Steinbergers have either adaptors or a built in option.  I plan on using LaBella tapewounds, which shouldn't be a problem. 

As for hardware, ABM is out just due to cost (super costly on this side of the 'Pond) but I'm also really intruigued by the Kramer Duke/Hondo Alien setup:

With a little bit of careful engineering, I could use almost any bass bridge & tuners.  The challenge there is what has me leaning toward that method.  Though it would also be nice to pay less for bridge & tuners than the cost of any of the headless bass bridge options.  I also have a slab of purpleheart (to match my all purpleheart neck on it's way) that will be plenty long enough for a Duke/Alien body.

 

[Tony Raven]

I've tried one of the Hondo headless. The darned keys are a bit difficult to turn, seeming like lower-tier guitar keys rather than bass, & sorta buried against the butt-end of the guitar. Almost a great idea.

Like you, I think the Hipshot hardware is Seriously Cool.

But I'm also lazy. A few years ago I picked up a Ministar "Castar" s-s-s, & it constantly surprises me at how good it sounds & plays. The strap rods are ingenious, & allow the thing to hang properly from a strap (something that's always bugged me about the Steinberger stick). I've thought of snagging a "Basstar" fretless five -- with the rods off, it's 40" long, & would probably play just fine sitting down if you prop the tail against a chair cushion. There's still room for building; an artist friend offere to make stained glass wings!!!