Head angle question for sg style

sLloyd

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I will preface this by saying that have pretty limited guitar knowledge...lol...as will be pretty obvious.

I don't play guitar at all, but my 8 year old daughter does. She is playing on a 3rd hand squire strat, and she is getting good enough that I think she needs an upgrade.

We spent a day visiting several stores and she just loves the sg, and with Angus being her idol...I guess we will be going that route. Plus she is a tiny thing and will always be on the small side, it seemed to fit her hands well. And I think she was comfortable with that scale.

I am a little worried about how well the epi sg will hold up with her, she is a kid after all....crap happens.
And I just can't afford the Gibson standard SG.
I am mulling over building her one with a bolt on neck. I am pretty confident that I won't have any issues making the body myself. I figured for the first one, I would buy a neck so I could really study it before taking that on.

My question is the head angle.....will it make any difference if I use the warmoth 24.75 conversion neck? It seems to have a straight head from the photos whereas the sg has that angle. I did notice that there is also an angled conversion neck but I think maybe I should stick with a straight one just to help minimize kid accidents if possible.

So, in general.....using sg pickups and bridge parts... will a straight  head make it sound completely off?

A second question would be building it to 25.5 scale(if I went that route instead), how would I figure where the pickups should be located? again...just using the "stock" setup that would come on a standard sg.... would that scale also throw of the sound?

From my information seeking, I understand that since I am thinking the bolt on route that I will have to thicken the body some to strengthen that neck pocket and I will have to angle the pocket some....anything else I am overlooking
 
Caaaa-geeeey!!!

(Sorry. Inside joke.)

Welcome to the 'boards, first off! Scale length is going to greatly change the way the instrument plays and feels; string tension and everything relates directly to this, -more so than to headstock angle. Pickup location along the string path is probably a bit more subjective, but does make a difference (-thus the reason for having more than one of the things, on most cases).

I guess I'll just say what I'm thinking... okay? Why don't ya just pop a body blank from Warmoth with all the critical stuff cut for you? If the neck pocket, bridge post holes, and pickup cavities are all done just right, then you can focus on the fun stuff like where to put the knobs, the body shape, the finish, assembly, etc.. The little extra you'd pay for W to do that make-r-break stuff would be far outweighed by your peace-of-mind and the from-the-git-go quality of the build. After that, still wanna cut one yourself? -Study and measure the first one and go from there.

Lastly, my two-cents: She's 8 years old. Able to play or not, she's just a kid... and kids damage nearly everything. I have kids. They are grown now, but when they were little I got 'em top-of-the-line stuff to give 'em the best shot. Guess what... what they didn't ruin (on accident, of course), they lost interest in. My vote: get your daughter the Epi. If it even still has a headstock in three or four years, and she still wants to play, step her up to a top-shelf fiddle.
 
Thanks for the info, that helped me rule out the scale change for sure.
I may just take your advice on just getting the epi for now.

I would still like to do a normal strat build, just for a fun project.
I do have a question about that though. I have quite a few slabs of red oak that would be plenty big enough to make 1 piece bodies from. I don't see too many people using oak for solid bodies.....is that just a weight issue?
 
I'm with Day-mun.  Your Epi axes are decent quality at the price.  If you really want to commit to a special project for your little girl, that may well justify whatever you decide to do - but if you just want to equip her with an axe she won't outgrow right away, you could do a lot worse than an Epiphone SG, and a pro-level setup from a qualified tech. 


The difference between the domestically produced Gibson and the Asian-made Epiphone is largely abstract reputation, not concrete quality.  Even if it needs a little work off-the-rack, a good tech can close any possible playability gap in an hour or so of bench time.


Also, I think that it's awesome that you're encouraging your 8-year-old girl to play electric guitar.  Good for you, papa.
 
Yep, red oak is heavy.  You could make a chambered or hollow body out of it and lose some weight, though.
 
the scale length is the distance from the nut to the bridge saddle. well the bridge saddle will be a small amount farther away for intonation but because the bridge has adjustable intonation there is also a small amount of wiggle room on this dimension. if you intend to build the body on your own this is the measurement that really matters in the end. that said the 24.75" scale "conversion" neck is just that it converts a fender body to 24.75" scale. it is designed around the distance from the bridge to the neck heel used on fender guitars, once the body is built with a conversion neck you could later switch the scale with no trouble or vise versa. you have to remember that warmoth doesn't build replica guitars. they build replacement parts for fender compatible guitars. when you go with a gibson style, it's styling only. the dimensions don't match epi/gibson guitars. it's an approximation.

that said there is plenty of information on bridge placing around the net for fender guitars. i'm sure some people on here can recall the dimensions for the bridge mounting holes in relation to the neck pocket...

 
Bagman67 said:
Also, I think that it's awesome that you're encouraging your 8-year-old girl to play electric guitar.  Good for you, papa.

X's 2!

I'll be the first one on board with anyone who wants to cultivate the development of their children's interest, especially in the early years! It is just such a roll of the dice when they are young to buy 'em state-of-the-art equipment... I got a 9-piece Pearl drum kit in my basement gathering dust (-next to the mountain bikes, archery equipment, art supplies, a gun locker, and a pile of rollerblades) to prove that if they don't break it, sometimes, even as passionate as they seem at the start, sometimes they lose the focus and pursue other interests....

And every time they do, daddy is there behind them 100% and ready to outfit 'em with the best next-whatever-they're-into!  :laughing7:
 
I never thought I'd see good, quality, solid guitar bodies made outa pine, either... but there they are, on the showcase. My point: -I don't see why ya couldn't do one from oak; it would be beautiful with a transparent finish! The only wood that might be off limits would hafta be balsa!  :icon_jokercolor:
 
Bagman67 said:
I'm with Day-mun.  Your Epi axes are decent quality at the price.  If you really want to commit to a special project for your little girl, that may well justify whatever you decide to do - but if you just want to equip her with an axe she won't outgrow right away, you could do a lot worse than an Epiphone SG, and a pro-level setup from a qualified tech

This. As a matter of fact, it it has not been done before, maybe a good setup could be enough for now. A well set-up Squier can be a fine instrument even for an advanced player, if the guitar has no huge defect (warped neck, super worn frets, etc.).

Otherwise, pretty much everything has already been said. A well set-up Epiphone can be a really fine instrument too, or you can make her a guitar from Warmoth parts (either with a routed blank or with a chambered oak body). All of these are good choices.

Also, big props for giving your child the means to cultivate her musical abilities.
 
sLloyd said:
I don't play guitar at all, but my 8 year old daughter does. She is playing on a 3rd hand squire strat, and she is getting good enough that I think she needs an upgrade.

We spent a day visiting several stores and she just loves the sg, and with Angus being her idol...

You have no idea how envious I am of you!  My 8 year old is hardcore into reading, which I am over the moon about, but I'd kill for her to have some interest in music!  That'd be a perfect excuse to do a new build at least once a year! "You like your SG, but want a short scale ES-335 copy now?  No problem!", "Hmm, you love guitar, but you want to try electric mandolin? I'm on it, sweetie!"  :headbang:

sLloyd said:
I did notice that there is also an angled conversion neck but I think maybe I should stick with a straight one just to help minimize kid accidents if possible.

The scarf joint on the Warmoth angled neck is actually pretty dang strong - arguably stronger than a straight piece of wood.  An angled neck carved from a single piece of wood (which is how it's historically been done by Gibson, among others) is a disaster waiting to happen.  Google "broken Gibson headstock". I don't know about Gibsons now, but I wouldn't begin to spend money on a real SG.  In fact, I'd say please don't give Gibson the money - go for one of these if you're compelled to have a "real" SG.  :icon_biggrin:

sLloyd said:
From my information seeking, I understand that since I am thinking the bolt on route that I will have to thicken the body some to strengthen that neck pocket and I will have to angle the pocket some....anything else I am overlooking

You'd probably need to have a body at least 1.5" thick.  Warmoth used to make an SG body and I believe they had that as an additional option (as they do on the Mustang bodies).  Or you could stick with 1.75" thick and just chamber the [expletive deleted] out of it - or even go thinline.  Oak is crazy dense.

As mentioned, getting a good setup for her current guitar is a great option, but even better would be building her the new one & getting a good setup done on that.  If so, please post pics!
 
Hi There,

Good for you for being a great parent!  I've got two boys and wish they'd get interested in music.

My advice is to get the epiphone SG, and learn how to setup and repair it.  As others have said, it's a good instrument and can be made great with a little bit of setup.  Regarding the weak headstock, when (not if) it get's broken, you can have a project to re-attach it with your daughter.  You'll be a hero and once she sees what a pain it is to fix, she'll be much more careful with it.  Finally, the Epi is probably the closest thing to her hero's guitar that a student budget will allow.

So buy the Epiphone for your daughter and at the same time buy Dan Erlwine's guitar repair book for yourself:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Guitar,_electric/Guitar_Player_Repair_Guide.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=94858.3971

Use the information in the book to give the Epi a great setup, and then closely study the headstock repair section  :)
 
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