Has anyone actually done the Surh HSS wiring approach?

[eddie]

Hey folks,

I'm building a strat with a humbucker (Dimarzio tone zone) in the bridge and single coils (Fralin blues specials) in the middle and neck position. I have three 3 pots: 1 volume and 2 tone controls. I have room for a 5-way blade switch.

The consensus is the humbucker wants to see 500k pots, the single coils want to see 250k pots.  I've seen many suggestions to use the "Suhr" wiring approach which uses a 5-way super switch in conjunction with some parallel resistors. See here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1987829/wiringSSH2T.pdf

The super switch is basically 4-pole switch (4 copies of a typical blade switch). Its schematic is here: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/Super_Switch.html?tab=Instructions#details

I see many recommending this, but I haven't seen anyone who actually said "yes, I've done it" and "yes it works as expected" . I haven't traced the circuit myself yet. I was wondering if anyone had first hand experience with it.

thanks!
eddie

:rock-on:

 

[line6man]

I see nothing special about the wiring. There is a treble bleed on the volume pot; that's a common mod.
The resistor on the first tone pot simply drops the output impedance by providing a resistive load against the output. You can more-or-less achieve the same thing by rolling the volume pot or the tone pot down a touch. People tend to freak out over pot values, but if things get too bright, that's what your tone pot is there for in the first place, so there is no need for silliness. If you do want to try the resistor, keep in mind that it will affect the taper of the volume pot.

 

[tfarny]

The consensus is the humbucker wants to see 500k pots, the single coils want to see 250k pots.

The consensus is that those values where what was cheap when Fender and Gibson were first designing their iconic models. Since then both companies have swapped values and used others in both single and bucker configurations. The 250k pot will affect your overall sound by making it a touch darker, which can be achieved in many other ways such as amp settings, guitar tone control, long cables, pickup height adjustment, etc. I would just say get 500k pots and forget the whole issue, it's a mountain from a less-than molehill. 

 

[Cagey]

I agree. However, I've become a real believer in the treble bypass cap on the volume pot. I use a .001 cap, no resistor. Lets you turn the volume down without affecting your tone. Works well. Costs almost nothing. Should be a standard part on an electric guitar, but you know how OEMs are.

 

[Johnfv]

The treble bleed has been a nice addition on several of my guitars but results can be variable. I have a several Strats with a hot humbucking bridge pup and singles for neck and middle. I did 500K pots for many years for the extra power and bite but in recent years I have come to appreciate the warmer tone of 250K or 300K when appropriate.  For example, my 1st Warmoth build was swamp ash body and maple neck. Even with relatively hot/warm pickups it was pretty bright. I switched to a brass block trem and 250K volume pot and am much happier with the tone. In other words, use the pot value as a tool to tweak the tone of your instruments to perfection  ccasion14:

 

[Dan025]

no need for a super switch, just wire the first tone to the single coil pups, when the middle is in parrallel with the hum you lower the inductance of the circuit anyway and that's the biggest factor for brightness and deciding the pot value. actually it's arguable if you need a seperate resistor, if you use a 500k for the tone and ground that spare lug it will lower the impedance just the same, though it also affects the taper of the tone just slightly and will make the cap completely invisable to the pickup at "10" as it will be grounded at both ends rather than just insignificant.

the guitar might sound great with a 500k volume if you use a warmish neck wood, i believe those singles are intended to be warm anyway. it also comes down to fine tuning te tone for your taste. there are humbuckers that people prefer 250k pots on becasue they can be too bright or aggressive sounding. there are some that might need 1meg to prevent muddiness. if it were me i'd wire it up normal with all 500k and if the singles end up a little too bright or harsh sounding then try rolling the tone down to somewhere around 7 maybe 8 if it's audio taper or 5 for linear taper, if that's any any less than as bright as you want to go then stick to the 500k tone pot, for now, next add the resistor to ground on the first tone pot, if that's more satisfying test the tone a bit, you may want a 250k tone with a 250k effective impedence because the taper might wind up a little different. 

i have done some weird wiring in the past, and to tell you the truth i dont have such a picky ear that i ever found it necessary. i dont care what the taper of the tone control sounds like as long as it works and is variable that means the tone im looking for is in there. also that treble bleed mod messes with the load to the pickups as volume changes, rolling the volume down to 6-7 could work as well to flatten the resonant peak out a bit as changing pot values.  it looks like that schematic is where someone went in finding popular ideas and never looked at how they influence each other or tested if they work, not to mention the super switch is not needed in any way and is harder to wire. if they did test they may have been subject to placebo effect. if you add a resistor to simulate a 250k pot i'd do as cagey said and pull the resistor from the treble bleed mod. if you use the treble bleed as shown i wouldn't over engineer the rest of the circuit.

 

[Kostas]

I have read many times online from people who have done it and it works fine. This was started by Anderson (he calls it vintage voicing) and Suhr adopted it too. It's the proper thing to do if you want the singles to see 250k and the HBs to see 500k.

No need to ask, just do it!

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I talked a bit about volume control resistance in this post on my blog quite recently. In particular on that post you'll see that the effect of adding a resistor on the taper of the pot is not that great, probably within the tolerance on most pots.

Because of the other stuff going on in the wiring for my build, I needed 5 poles on my switch which is more than a super switch gets you. Having found the switch I was able to do a wiring diagram. HOWEVER - I haven't actually done this wiring yet, so can't report on how good it is. A big part of why I'm bothering with it at all is for the fun and challenge of working it all out, rather than because I believe it's going to have some stupendous effect on the tone.

It can't do you any harm though.

 

[Cagey]

It can't do you any harm though.

Right. It's just unnecessary work. Kinda like making the control/pickup cavities wear foil hats, or doing the "star" grounding scheme. Doesn't hurt anything, but doesn't do any good, either.

Which brings up a point I meant to make earlier after looking at your wiring diagram. You probably don't want to use a pot body as Grand Central Station for ground/common/neutral. If you must do the "star" grounding scheme, put in a ground lug somewhere to take the abuse of all that soldering. Pots aren't designed to take it. The resistive strips inside those things are almost certainly carbon-impregnated plastic so excessive heat will not do them any good at all. The pot will fail early, assuming it lives through the abuse in the first place, and you'll have to replace the little bugger.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Haha, I knew someone would pick up on that. I don't normally solder to the pot other than to quickly ground the casing, for exactly that reason. I normally use a lug just nearby. It's also much easier to do it that way.

I do my diagrams like that because of convention, that's how they're always shown. But maybe I should change that.

 

[Cagey]

I would. Not everybody understands the underlying reasons for doing things one way or another and will slavishly follow any example given. You don't want to disseminate bad information.

Myself, I use pot grounding lugs. They're cheap and convenient, and save the pots from suffering 40 watts of heat when they're only designed to dissipate 2. There's a whole thread on the subject here.