Graph tech Ghost System

[Jcurl02]

Hey there,

Well I've finished my first Warmoth build. Here is a not too good picture of it.

So I'm starting to think about my second now.  Fortunately my fiancee wants a cat and I hate cats.  So we've struck a tentative deal.  She can get a cat if I can increase my guitar collection once again.

So this is what I'm thinking:

A very nice quilted top, either LP, Tele or sololist body.
NO STANDARD PICKUPS.  USE ONLY THE GRAPH TECH GHOST SYSTEM to connect to a roland GK -55.

If you haven't seen the ghost system, it's basically a synth setup built into the bridge!  No add-ons no standard pickps.  Can totally expose the beauty of the wood!

I have a few concerns:
1)  Limits this guitar to only be usefual as long as there is a 13 pin synth system that mates to it.....  Hate to think of making an expensive obsolete guitar
2)  I want a guitar body with no locating hole or plug in it from Warmoth.  Is this even possible?
3)  Would the body woood selection have an impact on the tone?  I don't think so since it's a synth and can be adjust to any liking.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[swarfrat]

A couple points there:
There have been basically two standards. Prior to the fall of the roman empire, there was the Roland 24 pin rectangular plug. Since the Middle ages it's been the Roland 13 pin connector.

Roland is the big player, and has dominated the guitar-MIDI market (such as it is) for a couple decades now.  If the 1/4" phone plug is any indication we'll still be using the 13 pin connector in 100 years, long after more reliable, or better performing options are available. Even if Roland were to completely vacate the market.

Warmoth can fill the locating pin hole with wood I believe. And no, if this is a synth only guitar, wood makes absolutely no difference.

 

[AutoBat]

UpDown has several guitars with GK equipped guitars with nice build progress pics (though he uses magnetic pickups as well)

 

[swarfrat]

One other bit about the tone question. There are basically three ways that hex pickups are used.

1) Summed mono out - this is mostly used with piezos for "acoustic" tone.
2) MIDI conversion this is the case I was speaking of earlier
3) Hex processing. The roland stuff does both hex processing and MIDI conversion. In this case wood will still affect tone. How much I can't say - especially since by bolting a set of piezos onto a strat, it sounds passably like an acoustic - I'm guessing there still isn't a lot of wood induced coloration even in this case. Magnetic may be different.

Under hex processing there's some pretty whacky stuff possible in the real of modelling, and I'm not real familiar with the current state of the art. But if you have enough processing power you could do even change the envelope and strength of each strings individual harmonics for something that would take you back to 1985 in a hurry.

 

[drewfx]

I have a few concerns:
1)  Limits this guitar to only be usefual as long as there is a 13 pin synth system that mates to it.....  Hate to think of making an expensive obsolete guitar
2)  I want a guitar body with no locating hole or plug in it from Warmoth.  Is this even possible?
3)  Would the body woood selection have an impact on the tone?  I don't think so since it's a synth and can be adjust to any liking.

Any thoughts?

1. You can find schematics for the 13pin connection out there, so that even if it ceases to be commonly used you can wire your own breakout box to access the individual string outputs - they're just piezo signals that can be used for a variety of purposes.

2. No. W will fill the hole, but it will be there and likely show to some extent.

3. No. If body wood could have an impact, the 6 individual strings' signals would bleed into each other at least 100 times more.

Personally, I'd rather much have a magnetic PU than a plugged hole, but I get that some people like the idea of a guitar with no apparent PU's.

 

[Updown]

Gee sorry I'm late to the party  :icon_biggrin:

Hey Jcurl02 , how ya going with the GR-55 ?

Hey nice looking guitar there ….. But you'll find it will play much better with strings on it.  :laughing7:

1st up I know bugger all about the Ghost System's  :dontknow:
I'll leave that to swarfrat as he'll know more about that.  :icon_thumright:

On the other hand, I know about Roland's GK-3 etc.
I use the Roland pickup because of one simple reason … It's Roland & I use the Roland VG-99 & the GR-55
Just makes cense to me, as they do have the monopoly on other types as swarfrat mentioned.
They still continue on with these hence the GR-55
The GK-3 pickup hasn't changed for ages now, so it must be right !!

To me you are just making 1/2 a guitar if your just using the Ghost System or Roland. But thats up to you !!

:icon_scratch: Don't you like using normal pups at the same time as the Roland Hex pup  / Ghost system ?

If you don't use normal pups as well, you are missing another sound / guitar part that would otherwise be there
Plus you can still use effects / guitar amps in the VG via your normal pups. (Not the GR thou)
Or run it though G/Rig or some favourite floor pedals.

Like for instance, I'll have ONE guitar though both the VG & GR via 13pin using the US-20 to couple them together
& then run the normal output into a Zoom foot pedal. For a wall of sound from one guitar. 
:guitarplayer2:

The Red Quilt Strat that has P-Rails & the GK-3 pup, to me it is an all round guitar, has the lot !!
This one … http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=17680.0

My 1st Strat build with GK-3 is different again using 3 x SD's
This one … http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=16573.0
Plus the next (Tele Deluxe) GK-3 build will have 2 x Humbuckers.

All these can be used via 13pin into my Roland gear OR as a normal Guitar. 

I personally would use the GK-3 & toss in the normal pups too.
But I must stress I have never used the Ghost System & more than likely won't, as I find the GK-3 perfect.

The wood, would only make some difference when using normal pups as well.

I would also have a look at other comments about Ghost System on the forum …. VGuitars.
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php

Cheers Updown  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Updown]

Just adding some pic's for you, of pickup-less guitars. ie: just using GK-3 or Graphtech
(these ARE NOT mine)
1st is a Warmoth with graphtech .... rough job on the 13pin install  :doh:
2nd is an old Variax with GK-3  :sad1:

They just look sad & lonely without normal pickups  :sad: 

 

[Jcurl02]

Updown, thanks once again for the information.

I've messed around a bit with the Roland GK-3 and the GR-55.  Pretyy awesome.  I'm still learning.  Thanks for the link to the vguitar forums.  I've downloaded ALL the patches.  I haven't uploaded them to my GR as of yet but plan to.

By the way, I also downloaded the program that allows you to easily edit the patches on your computer.  I looked at it and it seems pretty awesome as well.  However, did I miss something?  Can you use it live? By that I mean can I use it to edit on the fly and hear the cahgnes or do I have to change a setting and upload it to try it?  It would be great if you could do it on the fly so to speak.

As for the guitar without the usual pickup, maybe it magic, but I think it's always cool to hear sounds come from a guitar that has no obvious method (Magnetic exposed pickups or sound hole).

The one dissappointment I have with the GR-3  / GK-55 is guitar out.  Unfortunatley I have a late 80's Marshall Combo Amp that has only one input.  So unless I get a second amp that has two inputs I can't utilize the guitar out.

One last comment.  I NEVER play out.  I'm probably considered a guy that has more money than brains.  I have 9 guitars (I actually had to stop to count them).  Some have not been out of their cases in years and all have very limited playing hours.  (A shrink would probably say this stems from my parents not wanting me to get my first guitar.  The first two / three guitars and amp were purchased while they were out of town. Now I have some spare cash, I buy what I couldn't when I was young!)

List of guitars (some in pic some not, need to get a new family picture..... Maybe that should be a new Post!  "Family Pictures!!!)
 
BC Rich Acoustic
Applause (Ovation low end) Acoustic / Electric
Fender 12 string  Acoustic
Takamine Santa Fe Acoustic / Electric
Martin D 18 (Autographed by Gordon Lightfoot)
Gretsch BST 1000 (poor man's les paul, nice guitar read up on it)
Fender 60 Anniversary (Mexican) Start
Gibson Gold Top Les Paul Deluxe (mini humbuckers)
Warmoth Custom Tele

Have a good weekend and play as much as you can!!!!

 

[Updown]

Updown, thanks once again for the information.

No worries at all. 

Yep, as I said the GR is pretty deep, lots to still learn myself  :sad1:

Would be a lot harder to use without that GR editor.

However, did I miss something?  Can you use it live? By that I mean can I use it to edit on the fly and hear the cahgnes or do I have to change a setting and upload it to try it?  It would be great if you could do it on the fly so to speak.

Yep sure you can, thats the general idea. To here the changes as you tweak some things.
But if you change to another patch, will lose any changes done to that previous patch that you we're tweaking,
UNLESS you save it to a user preset area.
(I would post that Q's on VGuitar for more detail on that answer thou)

The biggest disappointment is NOT having guitar INPUT.  :icon_scratch:
But I have that via the VG -99 !!
I combine the 2 units (VG-99 & GR-55) via a US-20  :icon_biggrin:

About your guitar out to amp, there is a way I 'think' around that … 
By using some type of splitter box, Again I would ask that Q's on VGuitar.

As I can plug my guitar output from the GR into my RME 400 Fireface interface directly to computer.
But because I have the VG as well I usually run it out of that one.
I don't need the use of amps (do have some thou) So can't really help there either.
:doh: Sorry not to be more helpful on your Q's

I'm very much the same as you  :laughing7:  don't play out / live, all done in home studio.
Have a bunch of different guitars too. 

Need to add your Warmoth build to the family portrait …. Nice collection thou !!
I must do a family portrait too ….  :icon_biggrin: