Gotoh 510TS trem - 2-post or 6 saddle - brass vs steel - your opinion?

[Schneidas]

Hi guys,

For my new Warmoth Strat (dual hummies) - I need to decide with which trem to go.
Requirements: 1.)should be flush with the body!!!! 2.)should sound good! 3.)should stay moderately in tune. (requirements in that order!)

I only know that I want one of these:
http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product_category=tremolo-510-series

do you guys have any information on:
-is it possible to adjust a 2-post trem to be "flush" with the body?
-does the 6-post transfer more "string energy" than the 2-post?
-how about brass vs steel saddles?

too many options...
Any help or advice is much appreciated!

Thanks a lot!
Chris

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I don't have any experience with that one, but it dang sure looks comfy!

I've had my Gotoh 1996 Floyd Licensed on my main player for 20 years now, still going strong.

 

[stratamania]

I prefer the two post. I have one on my Warmoth strat. See link to strat build in signature. It does sound good and keeps in tune well for a non locking Trem.

Warmoth don't offer a recessed rout for it. I know Suhr use a two post recessed 510 on some of their range but just interested why it's a requirement for you ?

 

[Schneidas]

A recessed route is not required... Where did you read that in my post?  :icon_smile:

It should be flush with the body - I mean the metal baseplate should be in full contact with the body, when not in use! Like, it should touch the body and rest on it... sorry, it might be my English!  :help:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

A recessed route is not required... Where did you read that in my post?  :icon_smile:

It should be flush with the body - I mean the metal baseplate should be in full contact with the body, when not in use! Like, it should touch the body and rest on it... sorry, it might be my English!  :help:

For "dive only" ie; EVH.

 

[Schneidas]

Yes, dive only (and to be honest, I seldomly use a trem!)  :glasses10:

 

[stratamania]

I took flush to the body to mean recessed.

But set up non floating with the plate on the body thats perfectly possible and how you set it up. I have mine set up to float but it can be set up the other way.

Very good trems.

 

[Cagey]

Generally speaking, outside of some terrible designs from the old days, any vibrato bridge can be set up to bottom out when relaxed. Just tighten up the counterbalance springs until they overbalance the strings. You may need to lower the mounting posts as well so there's plate clearance when you dive the thing. This is because diving puts an angle on the base plate that, depending on the design, may dig into the body at the leading edge of the plate.

 

[Schneidas]

Thanks for your replies guys!
So a 2-post it is!
I guess the only thing left to deecide is what 2-post design to go with:

http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product=510t-fe1

vs

http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product=ev510t-fe

I wonder if that level contact point on the second design makes that much of a difference...

More importantly - I wonder why they have 2 different 2-post designs? One has got to be superior over the other?!

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Thanks for your replies guys!
So a 2-post it is!
I guess the only thing left to deecide is what 2-post design to go with:

http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product=510t-fe1

vs

http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product=ev510t-fe

I wonder if that level contact point on the second design makes that much of a difference...

More importantly - I wonder why they have 2 different 2-post designs? One has got to be superior over the other?!

Option #2 looks smoother to me, might complement some of the more traditional bodies with a "roundover", has a lil more mass, so you might perceive a tad more sustain/resonance/beef, but of course, this is all subjective.

 

[Cagey]

I wonder if that level contact point on the second design makes that much of a difference...

If you look closely, you'll notice that the first design (the 510FE1) has a slightly wider mount point on one side than the other, so the same thing is there. The reason for it is mounting studs are mounted in wood, which can't be milled/machined/drilled as accurately as some materials, so the wide pivot point on one side leaves some room for slop in mounting post location. Stud holes may be anywhere from dead-on perfect in their centerpoints to maybe as much as .187" too wide/narrow.

More importantly - I wonder why they have 2 different 2-post designs? One has got to be superior over the other?!

The first design (the 510FE1) is more of a replacement part, designed to look like a Fender AmStd+ vibrato bridge. The other, not so much. They probably fit in the same body setup, but for aesthetic reasons, some people may prefer that design. It's just a bent hardened steel plate with saddles on it. The second design (the EV510T-FE) is a more modern part, milled/polished/plated out of a solid piece of bar stock. It's smoother under the palm so it's more comfortable to play and has more mass to it. It also has much less metal in front of the mounting post contact points, so if you want to have it mounted flush to the body for dive-only operation, the leading edge of the saddle chassis won't dig into the guitar body when you dive it.

If it were me, I'd buy into the EV510T-FE. It's a superior design in more ways than one. It just doesn't look like the what Fender uses. But, who cares? Do you want superior performance, or to run with the lemmings?

 

[stratamania]

Personally I don't think either of them look like what Fender uses, but indeed one is a little more traditional looking for want of a better term.

With either of them don't forget to look at the block option. Both of the 510TS variants mentioned have a steel block rather than the FST block.

They are all good choices in the end.

 

[Cagey]

Personally I don't think either of them look like what Fender uses, but indeed one is a little more traditional looking for want of a better term.

I was thinking of this Fender part...

versus the Gotoh 510T-FE1...

You're right, they're not identical, but someone might call it "close enough" to get the better wang bar mount while maintaining appearances.

 

[stratamania]

Cagey,  ok yes I see where you are coming from. There is a similarity but the Gotoh to me has a look and feel of better quality. I guess my focus is more on those differences.

The other Gotoh with the curves I'm starting to like the look of a bit more too.

 

[Schneidas]

Thanks for all your help and the great infos.
That really helped me to make a good decision.  :icon_smile:

 

[Schneidas]

How do you guys feel about *brass* versus *steel* saddles? (The brass look cooler to me... very different!)

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

The bridge on the bottom looks like it might make for comfy palm muting, but feel is so subjective, you never know until you try it. 

I know from experience, that the saddles in the bridge on top of comfy for me, but that's me.

Personally, I like the sound of brass, it's always had a hefty tone, dating back to my old 6 hole Mighty Might Brass Strat trem that I had in an old early 80's Ibanez Blazer.  Loved the sound of that bridge.
https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/a_exif,c_limit,f_auto,fl_progressive,h_620,q_75,w_620/v1428210948/rkdevlr7ibevao9x5oyd.jpg

 

[Schneidas]

According to Callaham - brass is an inferior material when it comes to sound transfer - only hardened steel is optimal. - truth or his agenda?

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

According to Callaham - brass is an inferior material when it comes to sound transfer - only hardened steel is optimal. - truth or his agenda?

Subjective. 

Does it transfer energy well?  Sure, Otherwise it wouldn't be in use. 
Does brass transfer energy well?  Sure, Otherwise it wouldn't be in use.

Does hardened steel sound better than brass, or vise versa?  To some, "yes", to other's, "no".

Hardened steel knife edges vs. brass = certainly more durable as brass is somewhat softer, but hardened steel base plates with brass saddles, now there's an option that I've always enjoyed.

Again, when it gets down to it, it's very subjective.