Goncalo alves neck?

[Gatesy]

I finished my first warmoth build back in october. It is a rear rout strat with three dimarzio single coil pickups and a Wilkinson trem system. The body is made of alder and the neck is a warmoth pro purple heart with an ebony fretboard, 6100 stainless steel frets, and a standard thin profile.

When I finally finished it I fell in love with it. But after playing it for a few months, I have decided that I'm not the biggest fan of the neck. It has too much attack for my taste and sounds brittle in the high range. There also isn't enough bass response.

I have been pondering the idea of replacing it with a vintage modern one piece goncalo alves neck with 6100 fret wire and a standard thin profile.

Anyone have experience with either of these necks?

 

[Cagey]

I can't imagine Purpleheart sounding brittle, even with Ebony on it. You don't mention which pickups you're using, other than to say they're DiMarzio single coils. Perhaps they're the culprit. It would make more sense.

Most "noiseless" single coils don't have the dynamic range or edginess of real single coils. Maybe changing to a set of those would make you happier. A set of Fender's Lace Sensors, any of Seymour's "Area" pickups, or some of GFS' Neovins would tame that thing and still have great tone.

 

[Gatesy]

I can't imagine Purpleheart sounding brittle, even with Ebony on it. You don't mention which pickups you're using, other than to say they're DiMarzio single coils. Perhaps they're the culprit. It would make more sense.

Most "noiseless" single coils don't have the dynamic range or edginess of real single coils. Maybe changing to a set of those would make you happier. A set of Fender's Lace Sensors, any of Seymour's "Area" pickups, or some of GFS' Neovins would tame that thing and still have great tone.

I'm actually using an Area '61 in the neck and middle and an Injector in the bridge. All of these are humcancelling single coils.

Also, I might be describing it wrong.  It may not be brittle but its definitely too bright for my taste, and I mean when its unplugged.  I can manipulate my rig to make it less bright, but I feel like if the guitar had more of the sound I was going for unplugged it would sound that much better through my rig.

 

[Cagey]

Well... it's an electric guitar. It's supposed to sound right amplified, not acoustically.

The way I look at it is you want the thing to have the capability of creating as many sounds/tones as possible and if there are some you don't need/want/like, you adjust them out or modify them somehow using compressors, filters, amp characteristics, sfx, etc. The day may come when you DO want some of those sounds/tones. Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.

I mean, when does anybody play an electric acoustically? Maybe practicing scales or what have you in the middle of the night for exercise purposes. But, generally, they're useless acoustically.

 

[Gatesy]

Well... it's an electric guitar. It's supposed to sound right amplified, not acoustically.

The way I look at it is you want the thing to have the capability of creating as many sounds/tones as possible and if there are some you don't need/want/like, you adjust them out or modify them somehow using compressors, filters, amp characteristics, sfx, etc. The day may come when you DO want some of those sounds/tones. Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.

I mean, when does anybody play an electric acoustically? Maybe practicing scales or what have you in the middle of the night for exercise purposes. But, generally, they're useless acoustically.

I agree with you that it should sound right when amplified rather than when it is unplugged. But to my ear, it doesn't sound right whether its amplified or not.  I have had to turn the treble almost all the way down on any amp I have played through just to get a bearable tone.  That being said I do generally like a darker smoother tone with a bit of sizzle in the high end.

This is also the second set of pickups I've tried.  The first set were the Premium Texas Strat set from Guitar Fetish.  I assumed they were the culprit and soon after switched to DiMarzio Area '61s in the neck and middle and an Injector in the bridge.  This did make a difference, but not much.

Sorry if I'm coming off combative.  I'm really not trying to be.  I'm sure you know a lot more about this sort thing of than I, because I'm really just a kid.  Albeit a kid that plays on average 7-8 hours a day.  I just know that I'm falling out of love with this guitar, and I believe its the neck.

 

[Cagey]

Far be it from me to stand in the way of a new neck, but I'm not sure moving to Goncalo Alves from Purpleheart is going to make a very dramatic difference. It may darken things up a little, but it's not going to be like turning your tone control to an extreme cut. On the other hand, it may feel nicer to play.

 

[Great Ape]

Mahogany with a rosewood f'board MIGHT fatten things up a tad, but really, is there anything more subjective and personal in guitar-land than Tone?

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Well, back a couple of years ago, =CB= put a Goncalo neck on a tele that had a bit too much attitude to it, and it calmed it down.  You also might want to try nickle strings, a much cheaper option first, and make sure you have 250K pots on the single coils.  While none of these options will dramatically change the sound, each will roll off a bit of the brightness.  Changing the neck to Goncalo is supposed to do the same thing, but I can't say with any certainty that it would solve the problem.
Patrick

 

[LushTone]

Is this your first guitar with an ebony fretboard? Ebony is the brightest fretboard that Warmoth has. Personally, I feel that ebony and its brightness dominates the tone of a guitar, especially an electric guitar. I don't understand how the wood is so popular. Anyway, I would say that the ebony is the culprit behind your problem. In my experience, the shaft wood (in your case purpleheart) has little to no affect on guitar tone. It's all about the fretboard.

In fact, I have first hand experience with this. I recently sold the bubinga/pau ferro (Almost the exact tonal specs as your wood combo) pro strat neck that was on my first Warmoth as it was too bright. At the time I ordered it, I was a noob and chose pau ferro on a recommendation. As it turns out, I prefer the warmer tone woods, especially rosewood.

 

[LushTone]

And to answer your question about goncalo, I love it. It's creamy and warm with a little more mids than rosewood. It has great detail and texture too.

Here's my build with an all goncalo neck:

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=20052.0

 

[DslDwg]

Here's mine, it's not a one piece and it's a Warmoth Pro.

I have a hard time verbalizing what certain woods are doing to the tone of a guitar, I personally think pick-ups effect my tone more than anything. That being said I love the GA neck IMO it more closely resembles mahogany in tone so I would think it would accomplish what you are after. From a esthetic point of view I think the grain can look a little harsh when new but as it soaks up the oil from your hands it really gives it a different character.

 

[Cagey]

I have a hard time verbalizing what certain woods are doing to the tone of a guitar, I personally think pick-ups effect my tone more than anything.

That's because talking about tone is like dancing about architecture. Doesn't translate at all.

And it IS about the pickups. They're the largest influence on the character/tone of an electric guitar. Neck wood is maybe second, and the bridge is maybe third. Past that, everything has an influence, but it's small and isn't necessarily worth worrying about.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I have a hard time verbalizing what certain woods are doing to the tone of a guitar, I personally think pick-ups effect my tone more than anything.

That's because talking about tone is like dancing about architecture. Doesn't translate at all.

And it IS about the pickups. They're the largest influence on the character/tone of an electric guitar. Neck wood is maybe second, and the bridge is maybe third. Past that, everything has an influence, but it's small and isn't necessarily worth worrying about.

Except ferrules, they are pivotal for optimal tone.
Patrick

 

[DslDwg]

I have a hard time verbalizing what certain woods are doing to the tone of a guitar, I personally think pick-ups effect my tone more than anything.

That's because talking about tone is like dancing about architecture. Doesn't translate at all.

And it IS about the pickups. They're the largest influence on the character/tone of an electric guitar. Neck wood is maybe second, and the bridge is maybe third. Past that, everything has an influence, but it's small and isn't necessarily worth worrying about.

So we are in agreement - but what always amazes me is how some people can make such descriptive statements about how a fretboard wood or fret material changes the tone of their guitars.

I have a dozen guitars and most are widely different - woods, pick-ups, construction. In my mind I think "Character" is the best descriptor because I know the guitars are different, they feel different and they play different some may sustain longer and some may sound better acoustically. At the end of the day with enough processing I think when recorded I can make them all sound very close to the same.

 

[stubhead]

Little necks = little tones. 72% of the string length is traversing neck, and you're stringing up toothpicks. Go boatneck, young man. Go fatback. At the very, very least, go '59.

 

[DustyCat]

I am wondering...nobody here said anything about the effect, if any (certainly there must be difference), of the larger frets (6100) on the sound of the guitar.
More metal?  :dontknow:

 

[Cagey]

They don't change the tone at all, but they definitely change how it feels and responds to your fretting hand. The height of the things means you generally don't touch the fretboard much; it's all string. So, you get excellent control. Bends and vibrato get a LOT easier, especially with stainless frets.

The downside is if you manhandle the thing, you'll be out of tune most of the time. The strings are stopped by the fret a ways above the fretboard, so any undue pressure will sharp the string(s). If you're not used to them, they'll drive you nuts. But, once you are used to them, you'll never want anything less.

 

[DustyCat]

Well I dont have enough guitars to A/B them directly, but I do have 6100's and I love them. The thought that maybe just a little too much finger pressure raising the pitch of the note sharp does not even cross my mind. I would sure appreciate it if the "Know it all" behind the counter at my local music store to stop telling me this...but that's another story altogether.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Cagey]

Perhaps the "music store guy" can't handle them properly. But, it is true - if you're too heavy-handed with them, you'll sound out-of-tune more often than not. Most people who play my guitars are constantly trying to tune them even when they're perfect to start with. It's funny - you can almost tell who played them last. For instance, my brother will come over and grab one, and he knows immediately. "Has Jeff been over here recently?" He's the worst offender, because he wants to strangle the neck. Makes it nearly impossible for him to tune properly. My niece is the same way. Always trying to teach the fretboard a lesson.

Not that there's anything wrong with an aggressive playing style. SRV wouldn't be nearly as much fun if he wimped out. But, you gotta know when to bring out the whip.

 

[DustyCat]

Perhaps the "music store guy" can't handle them properly. But, it is true - if you're too heavy-handed with them, you'll sound out-of-tune more often than not. Most people who play my guitars are constantly trying to tune them even when they're perfect to start with. It's funny - you can almost tell who played them last. For instance, my brother will come over and grab one, and he knows immediately. "Has Jeff been over here recently?" He's the worst offender, because he wants to strangle the neck. Makes it nearly impossible for him to tune properly. My niece is the same way. Always trying to teach the fretboard a lesson.

Not that there's anything wrong with an aggressive playing style. SRV wouldn't be nearly as much fun if he wimped out. But, you gotta know when to bring out the whip.

Anyone who wants to play my guitars must first wash their hands, and I am totally cool with someone asking me to wash my hands (with soap) first if I want to play their guitar. And without "home field advantage" of familiar gear, its not a contest who can play fastest or hardest on somebody else's guitar, much less scratching it on accident because the new stimuli of someone else's guitar threw off your playing like a rock on the railroad tracks. Just holding the darn thing should immediately give you a certain vibe.

That's why I tried to sneak in my local music box early the other day when I had some time to drop my parts off to be put together by da Chief, but "that guy behind the counter" ambushed me! I have no jurisdiction there on his "turf" so I bite the bullet and let him "see" my new baby rather than risk the wrath of tampering behind the scenes if I humilate him in front of the other music store guys by saying "No."

But I'll tell you one thing, I beat him to the punch with my protective layer of forehead grease giving my new guitar neck a +1 coating bonus on saving throws against unwanted, greasy, grubby mitts.
Who's laughing now, "Guy!" 
:laughing7: