go floyd, or no floyd? (DOUG: not allowed to respond! ;) )

[Orpheo]

First of all:

Doug. no. get outta here. NO. seriously, this thread is not for you


For the rest: I'm thinking my new projects through. here's some specs.

LP 1:
quilt maple top on korina, maple pinstripe, flamed korina back. canary neck (need to do something else than purpleheart, eventhough I LOVE purpleheart to death!), handpicked ebony board, binding, celtic cross inlay, fatback 1 11/16 nut.

LP 2:
figured koa on walnut, with figured walnut back, with 2 pinstripes, bubinga neck, handpicked ebony board, binding, celtic cross inlay, fatback, 1 11/16 nut.

the question: should I use a floyd, or just a tune o matic? I have 2 les pauls with trem, and I love them dearly, I truly do. I like playing with the trem, I like the feel, I like what I can do with them, musically. But I HATE the tuning issues. I have to retune every 3 minutes.

I said before that if I'd use a floyd I wouldn't mind using a regular graphtech nut and locking tuners instead of a locking nut. but now I'm not sure if a floyd at all is a good idea! I really don't like that tuning issue. I really with it went as easy as with a fixed bridge. and not to mention the cutouts for the trem.

so.

what is wisdom?

 

[m4rk0]

I have 2 les pauls with trem, and I love them dearly, I truly do. I like playing with the trem, I like the feel, I like what I can do with them, musically. But I HATE the tuning issues. I have to retune every 3 minutes.

If I recall correctly, you have at least one with a recessed Hipshot and one with a wilkie, right.. I even think I remember you talking about a kahler at one point.
so what is wrong with the hipshot and wilkie? are you using them with locking tuners and a graphite or LSR nut? if you love doing dive bombs, you sure want a FR. but you probably already know that you can get close to divebombs with a recessed wilkinson.. I know I can... without going out of tune..

 

[swarfrat]

I'm not sure what to say to a man with so many similar guitars. But I went 20 years without a trem. They're fun, current project will have a wilkie, but in a stable of four or five guitars only one or two NEEDS a trem.

When it comes to pecking order I'd get a 12 before I got my trem.

 

[Orpheo]

I have 2 les pauls with trem, and I love them dearly, I truly do. I like playing with the trem, I like the feel, I like what I can do with them, musically. But I HATE the tuning issues. I have to retune every 3 minutes.

If I recall correctly, you have at least one with a recessed Hipshot and one with a wilkie, right.. I even think I remember you talking about a kahler at one point.
so what is wrong with the hipshot and wilkie? are you using them with locking tuners and a graphite or LSR nut? if you love doing dive bombs, you sure want a FR. but you probably already know that you can get close to divebombs with a recessed wilkinson.. I know I can... without going out of tune..

the kahler: goes out of tune  by just playing. not even doing a dive or something like that.

I have 2 hipshots, no wilkies. they stay in tune ok. not super-well, ok. but perhaps my hearing is too sensitive.

I have been thinking of doing an LSR rolling nut, but you can't do that on a les paul-neck.

 

[pabloman]

I had an old school floyd w/o fine tuners that I put on this relic San Dimas build that I did. I used locking tuners and a tusq nut and had no issues. Ever since I played my buddies LP Custom Axcess I've been itching for an LP with a floyd. I hated the idea at first. I thought it was sacrilige. As soon as I played it I was hooked. I had burstbuckers in my standard that sounded like dookie but in this guitar they were fantastic. Tapped coils in the mid position was bliss. It has gold hardware and abalone and MOP inlays and a OFR not a speacial or II or whatever the other ones come with. I need to get some pics of this because the only other one I've seen Alex Lifeson played. The kid bought it from Wildwood guitars He is a huge Lifeson fan and also has a Lifeson 335. He had me build him a Hentor clone too. Anyway ya LP+Floyd= :headbang1:

 

[Cagey]

A Les Paul is one guitar where I'd say if you must have a vibrato bridge, the Floyd Rose design is the one to use.

The problem is the LP headstock, which just doesn't lend itself well to string movement no matter what you do. You have a 15 degree back angle on the thing, plus various side angles, so the strings are always under two dimensions of stress going through the nut, which puts a minor kink in the string and keeps it from being able to move reliably. Even Pauls w/o vibratos will fight you on tuning consistency if you like to do a lot of manual bending/vibrato.

With a Floyd, you lock the strings at the nut, and it doesn't matter where they go after that. Once the thing's in tune and locked down, you could actually cut the little buggers off and it wouldn't matter.

As for the TOM, you have a similar problem - there's a severe angle on the strings going over the saddles, so the string kinks and can't slide on them. That's NFG. Also, I've yet to see a TOM that doesn't rock on its posts. The posts are too thin, and manufacturing tolerances are terrible for reasons I've never been able to figure out. To make both those situations worse, the thing is tall, adding leverage to an already shaky mount.

So, if It was me and I wanted to build a Les Paul, I'd either use the Floyd for vibrato or a Gotoh 510 for a fixed bridge.

 

[incabass]

go with whatever serves your MUSIC best.

 

[Orpheo]

go with whatever serves your MUSIC best.

my music 'needs' a trem. wether it being floyd or wilkie. but the thing I noticed on my kahlers is that I use the finetuners a LOT. and what I noticed on the hipshots is that the string always slips ever so slightly in the tremblock causing tuning issues. even if I weren't to use a locking nut, I'd get a floyd anyway.

the question remains: trem(floyd) or fixed bridge? just due to logistical reasons

@cagey: agreed, on all the points. having a graphtech nut and gotoh tuners (and a gotoh bridge!) helped me along for 99% of the tuning issues. and ofcourse using good quality strings. the thing is that I'm afraid that the locknut will cause more problems (because of insufficient range of the finetuners, I don't know) than actually solve any. if using a good floyd (gotoh, OFR, schaller) and a locking nut will ensure that every time I do a whobble or dive my guitar stays in tune, then I will use a floyd+locknut, for sure.

 

[Cagey]

You say you have to have a vibrato bridge, but then ask whether you should install a Floyd or fixed bridge. Sounds like the decision is made for you.

 

[Strat Avenger]

TOM with STP.

I like the Floyd Rose, but I'd never put one on a LP.

 

[RobR]

Floyd with locking nut would be the ultimate in tuning stability on a tilt back neck.... this is what I would personally recommend....

 

[AutoBat]

it could be a tilt forward neck, the locking nut makes it moot.


FLOYD IT!

 

[Cletus]

TOM with STP.

I like the Floyd Rose, but I'd never put one on a LP.

This is the correct answer. No other answers are acceptable.


Kind regards, Ministry of Truth.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

FLOYD IT w/brass block upgrade!!!! :headbang1:

And be sure to go 1-piece Mahogany body, quilt/flame maple top, flame maple neck and board this time around. Drop the exotic for a bit, you won't be disappointed.  ccasion14:

 

[elgravos]

Floyd is definitely the way to go.  Not sure what your issue is with tuning stability.  If you have a properly balanced Floyd on a well set up guitar, then once you lock that thing down, it can stay in tune for weeks - just need the odd fine tuner tweak here and there.  In my book there is nothing more stable than a floyd equiped guitar. In fact, to prove the point, I just picked up my floyd equiped super strat which I haven't touched for about 5 weeks.  Still in near perfect relative tuning though the strings have lost about 10 cents from A 440.  That's far more stable than my regular LP or other hard tail guitars.  With that said, if I was going to get an LP with a Floyd - and I had the money - I would most definitely be looking at the new Alex Lifeson model.  That really packs in all the extra features on my wish list for a gigging LP. 

Final side note: the korina body / canary neck combo is a definite winner so I would definitely go with that.  My JM uses that wood combo and is probably the best balanced guitar I have from a tone palette standpoint.  If I only had to have one guitar, that would be my combination of choice.

 

[AndyG]

My 3 guitars have:
Ibanez Roadstar/Warmoth hybrid : Floyd Rose
Ibanez Destroyer : Kahler
Carvin Bolt : Wilkinson

I have listed them in order of preference .... the Floyd is my favorite.

And for Les Pauls, if it is good enough for the Alex Lifeson Signature Les Paul, it should be good enough for anyone!

 

[Orpheo]

I can't understand why people don't like a trem on a les paul. because Gibson didn't do it originally? but thats a lousy argument. the current neckjoint on a gibson LP is accepted, though a far cry from what it originally was, not to mention iroko as a bodywood and sycamore as a top, in stead of mahogany and maple.

anyway. A flamed maple neck? me?! no. never. That neck needs a finish, and I don't like finished necks. I like 'm raw. my hands can get all sweaty, especially now the summer is drawing near. and if that happens, the neck will start to feel sticky. nah, no flamed maple for me and flamed maple board? no, no way man I'm a sucker for ebony. always has been. can't play something else, cause I don't like the feel and tone of ebony.

the lifeson sig is a very nice guitar, but it has some things I really don't like. THe frets are most likely not tall enough, the neck is most likely not thick enough, the fretboard isn't ebony but rosewood, inlay not my thing, pickups not my thing, neckwood needs lacquer. I can go on and on about why not to take the lifeson

 

[Doughboy]

It's really hard to play a none trem guitar for me now. I have a bunch of vintage guitars with regular trems & TOMs, but once you get used to tuning up once with a floyd & staying in tune literally forever, it's hard to go back to a regular guitar that goes out of tune after a few songs of heavy bending. A lot of people are vintage nazis or hate the look of a floyd, but I think they sound great & the tuning is 2nd to none.

 

[swarfrat]

For me its kinda like effects. They're cool and all, but there's a real siren call that pulls you away from the music itself and into playing with gadgets.

My nephew was lamenting getting sucked into playing with his POD instead of playing through it. I told him, sell it all. Buy yourself one hardtail single pickup guitar with only a volume knob, a cable, and a non master volume tube amp combo. if that don't fixya I don't know what will.

 

[Orpheo]

For me its kinda like effects. They're cool and all, but there's a real siren call that pulls you away from the music itself and into playing with gadgets.

My nephew was lamenting getting sucked into playing with his POD instead of playing through it. I told him, sell it all. Buy yourself one hardtail single pickup guitar with only a volume knob, a cable, and a non master volume tube amp combo. if that don't fixya I don't know what will.

I know and understand the line of thought. but I play everything from eric johnson to pantera and from mott the hoople to john mayer. and since I'm so reluctant to buy a stratty type guitar with a floyd (which are abundant in the guitarshops) the question is just: shall I go with a floyd or go with a regular bridge for the gazilionth time?

I think I've settled pretty much on the floyd. I'm thinking of a way to lock the trem down to dive only, and I want to be able to fully lock down the guitar. but I don't want to use the tremelno. i've used that for a couple of years, and I don't like it why? it doesn't work! the idea I'm having is having a seperate locking thing sandwiched between the springs, and a bolt in an insert next to the block. I can turn that bolt out to lock the trem down for a 'fixed' bridge style thingy. I only have to figure out a way how to drill/route perfectly perpendicular to the cavity. but if its just 10% off, I'll just file the head of the deadbolt 10% off so it's perpendicular to the tremblock.