general hardware needs.....

[juwel1998]

OK experienced builders and builderettes,

people following my threads have been very helpful so far.
This is about a Tele Deluxe build wish.

What is taken care of so far are the string ferrules, the bridge, the knobs for volume and tone, the 3-way-toggle switch, strap holders, the neck plate and the tuners  (6x Schaller mini locking tuners).

I want my hardware to be black.

I will have 2 tone and 2 volume knobs, will I need 2 capacitors (I have absolutely no knowledge of that yet)?
I want to get 4  500k CTS pots.
2 mounting rings.
1 LP switch plate.
I need wire.
Copper shielding.
Definitly a whole lot of screws....... :icon_biggrin:

Would you advise me to get a stereo or a mono jack?
The jack can be (if there is no other way) as well be gold (if stereo is only availyble in gold.

Or is an Electrosocket with switchcraft necessary?

Which string retainer would you advise me to get for the Tele Deluxe?

Is there anything I forgot?
Please let me know.


Thanks in advance
JULIA

 

[Cagey]

I wouldn't do dual volume/tone controls. One of each is plenty.

I'm not sure what you'd do with a stereo output jack.

Electrosockets are a little more aesthetically pleasing than a plate.

Copper shielding is a waste of time. Use shielded cable. It's easier, and much more effective.

Unless you're planning on a junk nut, you don't need string retainers.

As for what you forgot, I don't see pickups, a body or a neck.

 

[juwel1998]

Hello Cagey,

thanks for your reply,  Body and neck I have already put together. It's just the neck contour I have to find out fits me best - lots of testing in the local guitar store needed.

About the vol. and tone knobs, don't you think it'll look weird, if there is only one pair since the Tele Deluxe is made for 2 each?

Do I need one or 2 capacitors?

For the nut I want to have the black Tusq XL and PU's I want to contact  Ken from Roadhouse or use the  Dream 180's from _ shoot I forgot the name, I'll have to check in one of my other threads.

Thanks for now
JULIA

 

[Cagey]

If you already have the pickguard and it is drilled for that many controls, then yeah. It'll look weird if you don't put pots in them. But, if you haven't ordered the 'guard yet, just don't get the extra holes drilled. Or, put all those controls in there anyway and to hell with what I think <grin>

If you have to put two tone controls on it, then yes, you'll need two capacitors. I prefer .022uf parts, but opinions vary. The smaller you go, the less high cut you get, and vice-versa. You'll see them as low as .01, or as high as .047.

The Dream 180s come from GFS.

 

[mayfly]

Hi Julia,

If you are set to have two volume knobs and two tone knobs, you will need two capacitors.   The exact value of each will depend on the type of pickups you eventually choose.  Capacitors are easy to get at any local electronics store, so that is the least of your worries.  If you are still worried, I'll mail you two caps that suit your pickups once you choose them.  

Regarding tuners, I have the planet waves locking tuners installed on 6 guitars of mine.  I LOVE them.  They come in black, work well, and I have yet to have a set wear out.  The schaller tuners are of course well made and work well, but please consider the planet waves tuners for a moment before ordering the schallers.

Regarding the electrosocket, I like them (they are much better than the standard telecaster socket).  Regardless of what socket you choose, please use a switchcraft jack.  They are the most reliable and will not die on you in an embarrassing moment (for example - when you are about to go on stage and play with one of your guitar heroes).

Regarding string retainers, with a standard telecaster headstock, I think you do need at least one: for the E and B strings.  The round ones that warmoth sells are just fine with me.

You don't need  a stereo jack - mono is just fine.  I used to have a collection of Rickenbacker guitars, several of which had the "rick-o-sound" stereo output.  Never used it.

I would not bother with copper shielding.  I tried this on one guitar and it did not make a difference.  In a noisy bar, no one will notice, and in a recording studio, there won't be any interference.  Not worth doing IMHO.

Regarding wire, You'll be just fine with 24 gauge stranded wire.  If you really want to be careful, you can use shielded wire as Cagey suggests.   If you want I can throw a good length of each into the package that has the capacitors.  Where are you in Germany again?  

Things that you may have forgotten:

1 - neck screws
2 - a neck plate.  I hear Doug makes nice custom ones (I have two of his)  
3 - knobs for those 500K pots
4 - a switch tip.
5 - if you have never soldered before, be prepared to rope a local person into doing this for you.  It's a simple skill, but can be a little unnerving if you've never done it.


errr - that's all I can think of right now (my wife and I just finished a bottle of wine)

Trevor

 

[juwel1998]

@ Cagey,

Don't you think it could be good to have tone/volume control for each of the HB's? 
Since I am not at all firm - especially when it comes to electrical issues *grin* - I don't really know what you talk about, when you say "high cut" (it's not even my mother tounge).

About the Dream 180's:  you are sooooooo right  :toothy10: :toothy10: :toothy10:  I just couldn't think of it.


@ Mayflown / Trevor,

yep, screws for pickguard, neck, PU's, pots.  Will I need a straight 3-way-toggle switch or an agled one?

What are the advantages of the Planet Waves Tuners compared with/to the Schaller locking tuners (they cost about the same)?
What about tuning stability, are the PW as good as Schaller?

I already have knobs and neck plate (check the first sentence  :icon_thumright: :icon_biggrin.
Will I need an extra one for the toggle switch?

For the string retainer, what about if I use a bar (I know that has got more to do with Strats - just a question)?

Sorry, but what is a switch tip?

Yeah, I've already seen some of Doug's pieces and thought as much, but for him to send the stuff to Germany, hmmmm.

Well, I live in Frankfurt, where do you live?


Hope you chose a good year (wine wise) and enjoyed the wine, red or white wine?


So long  JULIA

 

[Cagey]

Don't you think it could be good to have tone/volume control for each of the HB's? 

If I could have the individual control the separate pots imply, it might not be a Bad Thing. But, with passive wiring when you have two volume and/or two tones, they end up in parallel when you select both pickups. This can lead to your switching into an unknown situation. Then you have to guess which pot is causing the problem. If you guess wrong, you have to put it back and adjust the other one. Then when you switch to the pickup that pot is supposed to be dedicated to, you'll be back at an unknown place and have to adjust again. But, at least at that point you'll know which pot to adjust. So, I don't like the interaction and the uncertainty. With a single volume and tone control, it doesn't matter where your pickup selector switch is, the volume is always the volume and the tone is always the tone. There's nothing to think about. Plus, since there's only the one of each, you develop muscle memory that allows you to grab the right control instinctively.

If you never use the pickups together, then it's never an issue. The volume and tone for each pickup will only affect that pickup. Or, if you use active pickups with a preamp, that works as well. But, then you have to have power onboard the guitar in the form of a battery, which may need replacement at an inopportune moment.

Since I am not at all firm - especially when it comes to electrical issues *grin* - I don't really know what you talk about, when you say "high cut" (it's not even my mother tounge).

The tone controls on a guitar are very simple. They're what are called "low pass" filters. What that means is of the range of frequencies the filter sees, it only allows the low frequencies to pass along to the next stage in the signal chain. The high frequencies are conducted to ground. The slang for shunting away high frequencies is "high cut". In other words, you're cutting out the high frequencies. How much gets cut depends on the amount of resistance and capacitance in the circuit. You change the resistance by turning the pot, but the capacitance is always the same. The amount of capacitance (the electrical size of the capacitor) sets where the filter starts cutting out signal.

 

[juwel1998]

Hello Cagey,

since I was thinking to build something similar to "Lucille" (B.B.King), I thought it would be nice with one for each. As checking the Gibson website, I cannot figure out if the guitar is an active guitar. But what I see, is they use linear pots for volume and non linear for tone.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to describe everything to me.


Bye  JULIA

 

[Cagey]

Lucille is definitely a "passive" guitar, not "active".

"Active" pickup systems have some electronics involved for conditioning the signal to accomplish some amplification and frequency response tailoring involving boosting as well as cutting. Since the pickups are typically low impedance parts, they're also generally more noise-immune. All of that requires power, usually 9 to 18 vdc, and usually provided by batteries.

"Passive" pickup systems generate a signal on their own which is sent directly to the amplifier, usually through a simple volume/tone circuit. There is no onboard amplification or response tailoring beyond the simple low-pass filter described earlier. As such, they don't require any power.

I'm not sure where you read that they use linear volume pots and logarithmic tone pots, but I suspect it's the other way around. Linear volume pots don't work well in passive systems because of the response curve of the human ear. We need a 10x increase/decrease in volume to hear an apparent doubling/halving. If you use a linear volume pot, it'll sound like it goes from nearly off to nearly full-on in about 20 degrees of pot rotation. In other words, it'll behave almost like an on/off switch.

Trying to get a Telecaster to sound anything like an ES-355 (Lucille) is going to be quite a neat trick, and how many volume/tone controls you have isn't likely to enter into the equation at all. What you really need is Mr. King's knowledge, experience, ears, touch, coordination and hands. So, better get started. You have a long row to hoe in front of you <grin>

 

[drewfx]

If you want separate volume and tone pots for each PU, go for it. While it's true that passive controls interact when both PU's are on, this isn't a huge problem in reality. Which is why lots and lots of guitars and basses use this arrangement and have for many years.

You gain some flexibility at the expense of the interactive controls in the "both PU's" position - and some added complexity. But as long as you don't make it ridiculously complex, there is no real problem.

 

[juwel1998]

@ Cagey,

hey, I read this on the Gibson website BB King "Lucille" Limited Edition Specs page. Yep. I know I won't be able to make it sound like he did it with his "Lucille". I was just thinking to get an "about" copy of his in a Telecaster body, not a 100% copy of "Lucille".
To get Mr. Kings "everything" is kind of out of reach, since he started playing at a very young age (I am over 40) and needed to play the guitar to make a living (I have a full time shift job).

So I guess, I will have lack of anything to even come close to his sound. That's as well a reason why I entered this forum to get some  :help:, since I :dontknow:
Up to now I received a great deal of it as well.  :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:



@ drewfx

Do you have any idea how to do the routing then, maybe?


Bye JULIA

 

[Cagey]

hey, I read this on the Gibson website BB King "Lucille" Limited Edition Specs page. 

I just went and read that page and you're right - that's what it says: 500K Linear Volume, 500k Non-linear Tone. Must be a typographical error, where they reversed the specs. Linear pots just don't work in that application. It's like BMW saying they use hydraulic engines and internal combustion transmissions.

 

[drewfx]

I'm not sure which routing you're talking about?

And I'm not sure if it's been discussed anywhere here, but B.B. King actually uses the 6-way Varitone switch in his guitars (many people hate them).

 

[drewfx]

hey, I read this on the Gibson website BB King "Lucille" Limited Edition Specs page. 

I just went and read that page and you're right - that's what it says: 500K Linear Volume, 500k Non-linear Tone. Must be a typographical error, where they reversed the specs. Linear pots just don't work in that application. It's like BMW saying they use hydraulic engines and internal combustion transmissions.

Actually, Gibson often uses linear volumes and audio tones. You can find it in many of their schematics:

http://www.gibson.com/Service/Tech/Schematics/

 

[Cagey]

I see that. I don't understand. It can't work. Anybody who's ever made the mistake of installing a linear pot in the volume position will tell you it basically functions as an on/off switch. There's no gradual rise from low to high volume. That's why the manufacturers make audio taper pots.

 

[juwel1998]

@ Cagey

does that mean I actually need 2 linear pots and 2 logarhythmic tone pots. Isn't it that W. just sells the linear ones?
Uuuuuups what are audio taper pots?



@ drewfx

thanks a lot for the link to Gibson schematics. I have seen they actually sell a Standard BB King "Lucille" without the varitone switch.
If I could only read those schematics  :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:
But maybe Bill will help me.....

By JULIA

 

[Cagey]

does that mean I actually need 2 linear pots and 2 logarhythmic tone pots. Isn't it that W. just sells the linear ones?
Uuuuuups what are audio taper pots?

Warmoth sells 250K and 500K audio taper pots for volume and tone, except for a couple oddball pots for Jaguar/Jazzmaster tone controls which are linear.

I use 500K audio (logarithmic) taper pots for everything.

Audio taper vs. linear taper simply describes how the resistance changes over the travel of the pot. On a linear pot, at the halfway point, you'd have half the resistance. With an audio taper, it'll be something else. More here.

Also, more here (scroll to "potentiometer tapers").

At both of those links, they'll give you greater detail and also why audio (log) taper pots are almost always used for volume.

 

[mayfly]

I see that. I don't understand. It can't work. Anybody who's ever made the mistake of installing a linear pot in the volume position will tell you it basically functions as an on/off switch. There's no gradual rise from low to high volume. That's why the manufacturers make audio taper pots.

You know what - the volume controls on my late 70's Gibson Gold Top worked just like this.  It was a real PITA mind you. 
Maybe Gibson does do this on purpose.  However - Julia - Don't do that.  Use log pots for everything.  You'll be happier. :icon_thumright:

 

[Cagey]

Leo Fender couldn't play. Maybe Orville Gibson couldn't hear.