Fret Leveling

[Wizard of Wailing]

    I've played the guitar for 23 years and have 5 Warmoth necks, but I'd never heard of fret leveling until I got on this site.  Do most people who buy a Warmoth neck have this done, and what kind of difference does it make?

 

[Cagey]

If I had to bet, I'd say most people don't do it, mainly because there are a lot more amateurs than professional players. Depends what you're used to. Once you've had a neck set up properly, your tolerance for anything less goes down. You can run a lower action without dead spots, buzzing, or fretting out. Dressed ends are more comfortable to play with. Polished frets allow easier bending and vibrato. It just makes for a higher quality neck.

Of course, you can skip all that and the neck will be perfectly playable. It's just a finishing touch that separates the pedestrian from the performance-oriented.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

I agree with Cagey. And will add that any player I've ever meet that have tried the difference between a properly leveled neck before and after they would never choose not to do the leveling (or have it done).

Even on fresh seemingly "perfect" Warmoth necks it just adds the last touch of perfection. 

 

[bbl4ck]

I have to go with the crowd on this one  :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:

I did not have it done on my first three Warmoth necks and and was perfectly happy.  Thought they were just great necks!
Then I had it done on the neck for Cherry Bomb and it just made the neck play like butta' 
I now have all my necks crowned and leveled at the time of first set-up.
I would at least try it on one of your necks and see how she feels :dontknow:
:rock-on:

 

[Cagey]

Here's a set of shots that show a fret installation progression I've been working on...

This is the raw neck

This is the initial fret installation

This is after they've been beveled, which is how new Warmoth necks are delivered

This is after they've been levelled, crowned, dressed and polished​

One step is left, to even out the binding and do a final polish.

 

[stubhead]

I have a slightly weird approach, but it's born of long experience and dictated by efficiency. And that is, I immediately do the fret ends, and if there's any real problem with a high fret. Which with Warmoth was exactly one time in a dozen necks? Several years back they had problems, all on 23rd and 24th frets of seven-string or extended necks. I'm assuming the standard process was used up till the 22nd fret and the last two were done differently - anyway, it went away, the fixed it.

I'm a real fanatic for good fretwork, I've been rolling my own for... dang. 25 years? BUT: I also know that a new neck needs to settle in for a while, it's going to bend itself and flex itself around for a while. So if the frets are reasonably well-seated, as has overwhelmingly been the case with Warmoth & USACG, I just do the fret ends and hold off on the level/crown/polish for at least a few season's changes. Preferably a year. I prefer action a good bit higher than Maximum Shreddy does, which helps.

When I see a company advertising that they "plek" their brand new necks, it seems screwy, because in a year that neck is going to have"matured" and the frets will no longer be as great as could be. It would make more sense to me to include a certificate for Plek'ing so you could have it done after the neck pulls into shape. But of course that would imply that their brand-new baby isn't exactly perfect in every which way, which they ain't a-gonna do.

It's largely a minor issue, because as mentioned above most people don't really care about having a guitar with superb action. And it's probably only a matter of five thousandths of an inch here, seven thousandths there, BUT - if you're doing fretwork, the real stuff, you better be able to think, see and work to tolerances of one-to-two of thousandths of an inch. You kinda have to train your brain to crawl down through a 10X jeweler's loupe and think small for a while.

 

[KaiserSoze]

For me another factor is that although I would like to get a great job done on my frets, the people that are capable of doing that are few and far between.  I took a strat in a couple years ago to a local shop where they proceed to butcher the frets and actually gave it back to me with file marks in the frets that would catch a string when I bent it.  I'm in a mid-sized city, and can't find anyone.  Seems to be turning into a lost art.

 

[Cagey]

Did you see the pictures above? I did that neck. Send me yours, and you can have the same.

 

[hannaugh]

I waited on my LP and had it done after 2 years.  I had wanted to get it done for a while, and finally had to because it fell forward against something and two of the strings put a dent in one of my frets.  No one likes crunchy frets.  It was a great neck before, but it is extra nice now.  I'll have it done on my Strat at some point in the next year. 

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I am wary of the Plek'd necks as well for the settling in reason.  Although the necks are reinforced with a truss rod and so on, putting 100-120 pounds of pressure on them is something to get used to.  And you never know how long the strings were tight on a guitar, unless you built it.  Further, the climate in California can be much different than Arizona, Colorado, Wisconsin or Maine.  You are telling me that a machine in one location will set up a guitar to be within NASA specs everywhere.  Right.  I have some Beach Front Property in Arizona for you, great price because of the current market...

Warmoth necks are set up very nice, but they are not "Finished" as far as setup goes.  No one knows what strings, how much bow, or the extras you are going to add to it later, so it can't be totally finished out of the box.  The final touches will make the neck a step above.
Patrick

 

[Cagey]

I've seen some of the necks on Gibsons that have supposedly been Plek'd, and while they look pretty good, they strike me as simply better than nothing, which is what many manufacturers seem to supply. I'd rather have my tender ministrations applied. I know - I'm biased - but I also know what a premium fret job looks like. I think for companies such as Gibson, a Plek machine is just a way to get the job done faster, not better. Plus, their designs are generally set necks, which adds time and complexity to a manual job that you don't have with a bolt-on.

As for doing it when the neck is new vs. waiting a couple seasons, I'm not sure it's worth the suffering of waiting and playing something less than ideal. A neck that's properly set up new may move over the course of time, but if it's nearly perfect to start with, then any movement you may get later on is unlikely to be dramatic and can be more easily dealt with than an entire work over. In the meantime, you've had a good neck to play with.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I know a couple of folks that have had their guitars plek'd through Mike Lull, but he's just up the road so to speak, so it remains in the same climate environment for the most part, and you can hand deliver it/pick it up so you can sit down & do a proper consult hands on.  That's not the normal situation though.

Compared to the cost of a normal level/crown/dress, I'm still an old school guy & haven't seen where the plek cost can compete with the older method with far greater results.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I wait a week or two, after that I find diminishing returns.  That period is usually long enough for me to decide how I really, no really this time, want it.  The set up on the frets is done before all that, so I wouldn't wait on a level job.  The final tweakage is done after a period of about two weeks.  However, I am wary about the thing going to Arizona, or the Patagonia, or to Bangladesh.  I am only guessing here, but it might need some adjustments later on if that were where the neck's home would end up.
Patrick

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I got a Plek'd Gibson guitar a few years ago. Best setup I've ever played, and showed me what I should be aiming for with my others.

In the UK, a Plek'd doesn't cost much more than a regular job.