Fret Files???

[bbl4ck]

I have a problem with my necks that is unique to the climate where I live; Phoenix, AZ
The challenge is the result of our low, low, low humidity. 
The current humidity at 11:40 P.M. is 16%.  Earlier today it was 4%.

What happens is that as my necks acclimate to their surrounding, the wood eventually ends up shrinking.
This leaves sharp fret ends exposed and ready to brutalize my hands.

All my Warmoth necks have SS frets.  I have found it difficult to find a luthier that is willing to do the fret rounding that I desire because of the SS frets.
They always say they don't have the diamond files needed to preform this task.  I have asked several shops to do this work without luck.

I am ready to take on this task myself, but am uncertain about what type of diamond file to purchase for this task of rounding off the fret ends.
I don't want to damage the edge of my necks or fretboards. 
Has anyone had experience with this type of work on SS frets?  Any suggestions on what shape of diamond file/files for this function? 

Thanks for your time in advance and have a smooth night...
:rock-on:

 

[Patrick from Davis]

You do not need diamond files for stainless.  Carbon steel is generally harder than stainless.  If the frets are sticking out further than the fret board, like railroad ties, then there is a file for that that "trues" them to the side of the fret board.  You can get one that you flip over and it puts a 30 degree bevel to the ends as well.  I bought one off of eBay that works like a charm for that.  They still need the edges of the bevel rounded, but I use a modified triangle file for that.  The corners of that file have been smoothed out.  Then you can take the edge off of the bevel.  Then they are very nice.  But you do not need diamond files for this.

The stainless frets will wear the files out faster, I know this is true, but the regular files have worked on five of my guitars with stainless frets.
Patrick

 

[Orpheo]

just don't tell the shop you have SS frets...

 

[stubhead]

There are more than one way to remove material. Carbon files are one, but they tend to "chatter" and leave teeth marks, which is why people do the last stages with abrasives. Diamond files are, like, permanent abrasives.... Because of a variety of past experience, I got very comfortable removing metal, including stainless, with the wet/dry gray 3M abrasive papers. Given that I'm not doing production work and I only have to level/crown/polish one or two of my guitars every few years on the average, I just do most all of it with wet/dry papers.

The most important thing is to think about the end result you want, precisely. You're going to need something very, very flat and straight, because you only want to take off the metal protruding beyond a single plane. If it's just certain frets, I would even use a gibson-sized nut blank as a sanding block, maybe start with 400 grit wet/dry until you're quite sure that you even need 320... the stuff removes even stainless at an impressive rate, and you're looking at a surface area (one fret end, just the pointy parts) that's only a few hundredths of a square inch. You may even want to switch to a Fender-width (1/8") blank for some parts. Check it frequently with your straightedge. It would be worth it to read the entire section of fretwork in Dan Erlewine's "Guitar Player Repair Guide". because you're going to want to be rounding the edges you've sharpened while shortening the frets. Taping off the fretboard is one pretty good way to protect it, if I'm doing spot work I really like the Stew-Mac fingerboard guards.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Polishing_and_abrasives/Fingerboard_Guards.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=16062

I don't use the slot, I just jam the side of it up against the fret at an angle that my paper-wrapped nut blank can't grind on anything but the fret edge. If you're on a maple board, it will be exceedingly important to keep brushing away the abrasive dust/metal shaving, maybe with a toothbrush? Just so you don't rub some dark spots on the board. At my age (53) just seeing the things clearly is helped greatly with an Opti-visor magnifying headset, and checking the polishing with a 10X jeweler's loupe. And good bright lighting, of course. You want to go 400 grit-> 600 -> 1500 ->2000. With nickel frets you can skip a step, but it'll go somewhat slower on stainless. There are finer Micro-Mark papers available, but a good steel wooling after 2000 has been plenty good enough for me. Unfortunately, there is no shortcut to really good fretwork, unless you do have one of the 16 Plek machines.... 22 frets= 44 ends= 88 corners, and all the neck-lengthwise, "quickie" jobs remove way too much metal off the tops to be considered professional. In this case, it ain't the journey, it's the destination. And it's still kind of masochistic.

 

[Wyliee]

All of my guitars/basses have stainless frets.  I've been using this file from StewMac: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Shaping_and_crowning/Fret_End_Dressing_File.html.  No significant wear on the file after about a dozen necks for myself and friends.  I also use sandpaper wrapped around a fairly firm sponge.  Usually 1000, 1200 and 1500.  Final polish with 6000 over the tops of all the frets to give them a bit more polish.

 

[Damon]

Have you tried Bronson Guitar Works in Old Town Scottsdale? I know John Bronson has said in the past that while he dislikes working on SS frets, he'll do it.

 

[Cagey]

Speaking of frets, does anyone know what the unit of measure is for the frets Warmoth sells? They quote a size and a price, for instance the SS6100 fretwire is $25, but it doesn't say if that's per inch, per meter, per furlong, per schittload...

 

[Damon]

Speaking of frets, does anyone know what the unit of measure is for the frets Warmoth sells? They quote a size and a price, for instance the SS6100 fretwire is $25, but it doesn't say if that's per inch, per meter, per furlong, per schittload...

Per this page http://www.warmoth.com/Fretwire-C216.aspx

ALL FRETWIRE IS SOLD IN NECK QUANTITIES

Not sure what that means exactly since they sell necks with anywhere from 20 to 24 frets and of varying widths, but apparently you get enough to do a neck....

 

[Cagey]

Hmm.. Put it in all caps, too. Don't know how I missed that. Thanks.

Still doesn't mean much, though. What if you're a sloppy cutter? What if you screw one or two up? What if you have more frets than the average bear?

 

[llmtelecaster]

Have you tried Bronson Guitar Works in Old Town Scottsdale? I know John Bronson has said in the past that while he dislikes working on SS frets, he'll do it.

I've had it with luthiers bitching about stainless frets. I know it's a relatively new thing, but a good luthier should adapt with the times. Complaining about it just makes them seem lazy. I don't hear any mechanics complaining about having to work on fuel injected engines instead of carburated ones.

 

[Cagey]

I suspect some of them are just looking for an excuse to charge more for their services. Considering how easily many guitarists are enthralled with total BS, justifying a premium for something that's clearly superior is a walk in the park. But, it won't last. Stainless frets are the future, so the services market will settle back down again fairly fast. It already has here. The "top" local shop only charges $25 for a dress & polish, regardless of whether the frets are nickel/silver, gold, or stainless. Look at Warmoth. It's only a $20 upcharge to install stainless frets, and they're starting from scratch. There's just not that much to it. The raw frets cost more, but I expect even that will change as more and more players demand them. So, anybody getting flak from their local guys about stainless frets ought to tell their local guys to wise up before they start losing business.

 

[bbl4ck]

There are more than one way to remove material. Carbon files are one, but they tend to "chatter" and leave teeth marks, which is why people do the last stages with abrasives. Diamond files are, like, permanent abrasives.... Because of a variety of past experience, I got very comfortable removing metal, including stainless, with the wet/dry gray 3M abrasive papers. Given that I'm not doing production work and I only have to level/crown/polish one or two of my guitars every few years on the average, I just do most all of it with wet/dry papers.

The most important thing is to think about the end result you want, precisely. You're going to need something very, very flat and straight, because you only want to take off the metal protruding beyond a single plane. If it's just certain frets, I would even use a gibson-sized nut blank as a sanding block, maybe start with 400 grit wet/dry until you're quite sure that you even need 320... the stuff removes even stainless at an impressive rate, and you're looking at a surface area (one fret end, just the pointy parts) that's only a few hundredths of a square inch. You may even want to switch to a Fender-width (1/8") blank for some parts. Check it frequently with your straightedge. It would be worth it to read the entire section of fretwork in Dan Erlewine's "Guitar Player Repair Guide". because you're going to want to be rounding the edges you've sharpened while shortening the frets. Taping off the fretboard is one pretty good way to protect it, if I'm doing spot work I really like the Stew-Mac fingerboard guards.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Polishing_and_abrasives/Fingerboard_Guards.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=16062

I don't use the slot, I just jam the side of it up against the fret at an angle that my paper-wrapped nut blank can't grind on anything but the fret edge. If you're on a maple board, it will be exceedingly important to keep brushing away the abrasive dust/metal shaving, maybe with a toothbrush? Just so you don't rub some dark spots on the board. At my age (53) just seeing the things clearly is helped greatly with an Opti-visor magnifying headset, and checking the polishing with a 10X jeweler's loupe. And good bright lighting, of course. You want to go 400 grit-> 600 -> 1500 ->2000. With nickel frets you can skip a step, but it'll go somewhat slower on stainless. There are finer Micro-Mark papers available, but a good steel wooling after 2000 has been plenty good enough for me. Unfortunately, there is no shortcut to really good fretwork, unless you do have one of the 16 Plek machines.... 22 frets= 44 ends= 88 corners, and all the neck-lengthwise, "quickie" jobs remove way too much metal off the tops to be considered professional. In this case, it ain't the journey, it's the destination. And it's still kind of masochistic.

Hey Stubhead, 
Thanks for the great tips...
I had forgot all about Dan Erlewine's book.  I already have it and it has some fantastic details.  I will give the wet/dry gray 3M abrasive papers a try.  Seems it would much easier on the frets and less chance of marring up the wood.
I also like those fingerboard guards.  They should take away a lot of the chances of tearing up the wood.  I also have 53 year old eyes, so that Opti-visor is probably a good option as well.  Thanks again and be cool...
:rock-on:

All of my guitars/basses have stainless frets.  I've been using this file from StewMac: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Shaping_and_crowning/Fret_End_Dressing_File.html.  No significant wear on the file after about a dozen necks for myself and friends.  I also use sandpaper wrapped around a fairly firm sponge.  Usually 1000, 1200 and 1500.  Final polish with 6000 over the tops of all the frets to give them a bit more polish.

Funny, that was just the file that I was considering.  I like how it has one smooth edge so you can easily round off the ends without marring up the neck. 
I will give it a try.  With that file and the 3M products, all should be well.  Thanks again for the tips Wyliee.
:headbang1:

 

[bbl4ck]

Have you tried Bronson Guitar Works in Old Town Scottsdale? I know John Bronson has said in the past that while he dislikes working on SS frets, he'll do it.

No, I have not tried them, but have considered giving them a try in the past.  Have you used them with success? 
I was going to try them, but then I came across an online review where a guy stated they installed some kind of an acoustic pickup upside down. 
I kinda strayed away after reading that.  However, I have still kept them in the back of my mind because I know how reliable online reviews can be.
I would love to hear something positive about them so I can justify checking them out.

I have been using the folks at Guitar Electronics, but have had mixed success.  Their amp guy is simply a miracle man.  He does fantastic work.
But I have had some challenges with their guitar work.  Nothing serious, but I have had to go back for rework several times because it was not done right the first time.
When they get it right, they are fantastic.  Plus they have really nice staff. 

Anyway, I would love to hear more about Bronson if you have any comments.
:rock-on: 

 

[Damon]

I met John when I worked at the Guitar Center in Scottsdale back in 04. Since he offered me a discount if I referred people to him while I worked there, I decided to give him a try. Over the years I've had him do setups on several guitars and basses for myself and some friends and I've never been disappointed. I'm not sure who in his shop actually did the work each time, and I doubt it was John every time, but other than the one old guy being kinda surly I can't say a bad thing about them. I do have to qualify the statement by saying that I've never had them do anything more complex than a setup with a basic fret dressing, but I'm planning to have them refret my les paul with stainless in the near future and I've seen some of their refinishing work, so I'd likely trust them for that as well. I'm sure they have had some dissatisfied customers, but I'd imagine every guitar shop on the planet has one or two people that they just can't please. But I trust them pretty much explicitly at this point.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Harbor Freight has some really good magnifiers.  The focal length is right about where it should be.  And they set you back about 6 bucks.  Good deal
Patrick

 

[bbl4ck]

I met John when I worked at the Guitar Center in Scottsdale back in 04. Since he offered me a discount if I referred people to him while I worked there, I decided to give him a try. Over the years I've had him do setups on several guitars and basses for myself and some friends and I've never been disappointed. I'm not sure who in his shop actually did the work each time, and I doubt it was John every time, but other than the one old guy being kinda surly I can't say a bad thing about them. I do have to qualify the statement by saying that I've never had them do anything more complex than a setup with a basic fret dressing, but I'm planning to have them refret my les paul with stainless in the near future and I've seen some of their refinishing work, so I'd likely trust them for that as well. I'm sure they have had some dissatisfied customers, but I'd imagine every guitar shop on the planet has one or two people that they just can't please. But I trust them pretty much explicitly at this point.

Thanks for the word.  I will give them a try soon!

Harbor Freight has some really good magnifiers.  The focal length is right about where it should be.  And the set you back about 6 bucks.  Good deal





Patrick

Dang, I just looked those up online.  Man, for six bucks ya can't go wrong.  Thanks  :headbang1:

 

[Patrick from Davis]

On the set I have at home, they fit fine.  I look like Ray Stantz from Ghostbusters with them on.  The set I have at work, I cut off part of the plastic near my forehead, it rubbed and ticked me off.  But once again, 6 bucks.
Patrick

 

[stubhead]

The Opti-Visor is one of the many items where Stew-Mac gets "Happy Prices", happy for them... They'll dip into the low $30's with some shopping. I started with a #7 lens which is 2.75X - great - 6 inch focal length - not great, except if you are making jewelry... I switched to a #3 1.75X, 14 inch focal length one and it's fine, and a $12 plastic one too. The amount of grit flying back into my eyes is pretty minimal, I'm just not that hyper anymore. I have a friend who uses & swears by the swing-in loupe attachment for fountain pen work, which is some pretty teesy stuff too. Magnification comes in handy a lot more than you realize, once you have some. Bugs get NASTY....