For all the lovers of exquisite naked exotic woods here

[m4rk0]

Should we be scared? can I bring my thinline abroad????

I know Warmoth has already been affected by this recently... hopefully it won't get worse.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

[Soylent]

I just read that too.. you'd best leave your guitars with me when you go to dutchland.  :laughing7:

 

[Jusatele]

the laws are there for a reason
I have to agree that some woods are beautiful but so endangered they need to be protected, and I will not lower myself causing extinction for personal enjoyment. Look at what happened to the vast stands of CA Redwoods. We do not have forest of them any more, just groves.

 

[stubhead]

It's weird enough that millionaires all over the globe are building decks to their houses out of this stuff, and our vigilant customs agency goes doofmeisting about over a 2 oz. acoustic bridge.

Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperwork—which simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.

That right there is the heart of it - it's so much easier when people bust themselves by trying to be honest, why, you don't even have to leave the office! Dog forbid you should get all dirty, poking around in piles of wood. I wonder if these guys even have the tests available to positively identify outlaw wood - spectographic analysis, etc. Fortunately, it's highly unlikely that any third-world wood sellers would actually lie about which of the 40 varieties of "rosewood" they're selling you... :icon_scratch:

 

[AprioriMark]

Maybe a little blunt, but to quote a pimp I once knew, "I would kill a b*tch."  It's one thing if they're checking out mass importers of woods, and another entirely to harass a guy with some OBVIOUSLY vintage instruments who made the mistake of asking how to do the right thing.  Pathetic. 

-Mark

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I'd refuse to support such actions as well, but what's done is done.  Who goes out when they purchase an instrument and question whether the woods were obtained legally?  Does anyone have documentation of such on this forum?  Probably not.  I've never received any documentation regarding the materials of any of my guitars...EVER.  

I'm all about conservation of our environment, and certainly feel very strongly against illegal practices if they are going on, and would absolutely refuse to support such a company, but I'm not taking the heat because some company sold me a guitar made of illegal woods 15 years ago.

The gov't has been doing their fair part to take everything else from us, whether they be more taxes, jobs, cheap healthcare, or whatever, but they ain't takin' my guitars.  Over my dead body.  What's done is done.  If I have guitars made from illegally obtained woods, oh well.  What's done is done.

And besides, Gibson hasn't even made the best Les Paul on the market in years.  Sad that other companies make a better Les Paul than Gibson.

FWIW, I'd support Laguna guitars, and even probably own a few if I'd actually played one that didn't suck.  I like their business practices.  For every guitar they build, they plant a tree. 

 

[Wyliee]

Gang, this is actually a huge issue that is going to impact every instrument builder along with the instrument owners.  It is also going to impact every industry using wood products as well as pearls, shells, etc....  It is possible the government is making an example out of Gibson.  I know at the recent GAL convention, this was a very major concern for everyone.  NAMM is also trying to fight the legislation as it has the potential to impact everyone crossing our borders with an instrument made of wood.

 

[AprioriMark]

Wyliee, how could this impact interstate shipping? 

-Mark

 

[B3Guy]

If they're going to be this strict, they need to first have a strong system in place for certifying wood and a whole instrument. It is wrong to make the users of the wood be the "wood police". that is not our job. I shouldn't have to hunt down documentation for the wood on the guitar I buy. Either the manufacturer should have to go through a certification process (like getting approved for USDA Organic as a farmer), or the import companies should have to. They simply cannot go policing this stuff, especially when it is not the fault of the people they are taking  stuff from. Disgusting.

 

[Jusatele]

Thanks Wyliee

 

[Steve_Karl]

Video from CEO of Gibson.

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/gibson-0825-2011/

 

[Steve_Karl]

the laws are there for a reason
I have to agree that some woods are beautiful but so endangered they need to be protected, and I will not lower myself causing extinction for personal enjoyment. Look at what happened to the vast stands of CA Redwoods. We do not have forest of them any more, just groves.

If you watch the video from Gibson CEO you'll hear that "The Lacey Act" is legislation that was "purchased" by some American Lumber union.

I agree we need to protect endangered species, but this whole thing has nothing to do with that. It's about greed.

 

[Wyliee]

Wyliee, how could this impact interstate shipping? 

-Mark

I don't know all the details about interstate, but there are potential issues there as well as definite issues internationally.

http://www.namm.org/public-affairs/blog/namm-lacey-act-webinar-luthiers  - Check out the Powerpoint presentation from NAMM.  Note that one of the requirements is to correctly identify the scientific name of the plant material in question.  Do you think the rank and file agent is going to be able to consistently tell each species of wood apart? 

The paperwork is fairly extensive to document a single instrument.  Think about the money and time necessary to fill out said paperwork.  Look at the potential $$$ fines for incorrect paperwork.  Again, this impacts anyone, not instrument companies only, using any of the wood or plant products.

 

[Jusatele]

Wyliee in plate 14 of the power point presentation it says that it does not apply to personal imports, would not a guy bringing in a guitar for a performance be a personal import

and I also see it does not cover Intrastate movement of product so Local state law would govern that, Rest assured here in CA we will see a senseless law written soon.

 

[Wyliee]

Wyliee in plate 14 of the power point presentation it says that it does not apply to personal imports, would not a guy bringing in a guitar for a performance be a personal import

and I also see it does not cover Intrastate movement of product so Local state law would govern that, Rest assured here in CA we will see a senseless law written soon.

I'm getting conflicting reports on personal import/export.  It is an area NAMM seems to be pretty concerned about.  Could I absolutely prove to a customs agent that I'm not going to sell it?  And if I ever decide to sell that instrument/wood, will I have the necessary paperwork to sell it legally?

 

[SkuttleFunk]

the message that's being sent to the indusrty (from my small business perspective, anyway) is simply chilling

all the best,

R

 

[Strat Avenger]

Here's a video about the ridiculousness of it all...
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUilBDkiGG0&feature=feedu[/youtube]

 

[AprioriMark]

Lol, it's creepy how many of the things he said have come out of my mouth recently.  I won't derail this too much, and I'm not a separatist nutjob, but I dare anyone to try to seize my guitars.  Effing dare them.

-Mark

 

[Cagey]

Much of what Mr. Jones says is essentially true, although he's making a mistake by burying it in so much rhetoric and exaggeration. The message is going to get lost because people will stop listening early on as the messenger appears to be fanatic. It would appear that he's a Rush Libaugh wannabe, but he hasn't done his due diligence so he's not going to get the attention he craves or deserves. You can't say "billion" when you mean "million", or "trillion" when you mean "billion". Plus, he doesn't focus. I understand he wants to tell us a lot of things that perhaps we don't know, but it would be better if it weren't all in one sitting.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

This is a problem that I've pointed out for a long time.  There are so many laws on the books that 1. it is impossible for anyone to say with 100% certainty that doing any specific thing is legal or not; and 2. that nearly every single person in the country (with possibly the exception of anyone under the age of 3 or so) could be prosecuted for violating some law.  I hope Gibson is able to fight this and come out victorious and I hope the rest of the industry will support them in their fight.  Sad state of affairs . . . . and people wonder why business people don't want to invest in their companies here!?