First Build. Finish not decided , Need advice please.

[Magicbisket]

I'm finally going to get my first quality guitar and I'd like it to turn out as nice as possible. I've ordered a swamp ash body blank routed for tele pickups and bridge, i'm going to do control routing myself because I want custom placement. The neck is a maple and the fretboard is rosewood. Medium Jumbo Frets because I have a particular liking for them, rosewood for warmth and atheistic appeal. Oh and the headstock is LP style. I've never cared for the fender style headstocks. I'm none to worried about the woods but I do have a couple questions/concerns I would like to run by you lovely people.

1.Finishing
A: I have ordered all gold hardware because I have always wanted gold hardware on a guitar. So I'm unsure what to do for the finish. I'm thinking about doing a whitewash with heavier white on the edges for a burst effect. The sides and back I would stain a dark brown color. Opinions? Would pure white be better. I realize the gold on white may be a bit tacky but It's still classy.

I've also considered doing the same brown sides with a honey burst or perhaps a darker burst such as tobacco.

B: Any special supplies for finishing or certain types of finishes I need to use?

2. Pickups

A. I've ordered and received Seymour Duncan Hot for Tele Pickups (STL-2 STR-2) Cleans are great but Iove playing with a nice touch of overdrive up to a deep engrossing fuzz. I'm not a metal player by any means I prefer classic and psychedelic rock. Nothing too new with exception of a few bands. Point being: I'm curious If these will work for me. I doubt I'll be disappointed considering they're Seymour Duncan's but I'd like to be the most blown away. Any Suggestions?

B. I've ordered the body rear routed. Will there be any surprises when installing them? Any newbie mistakes I could make?

3.General

Are they're any newbie mistakes at all to be make. Things that don't seems obvious until after you screw up or that only people with hands on experience could know?

NOTE: My Father is a skilled wood worker and finisher. He has several years experience with both. He also have wiring experience due to being a mechanic for several years so when it comes to cutting, routing, and finishing the body. I will have help. As well as with wiring. HE has all tools necessary as well. However he has no actual experience with guitar building or really with guitars in general. ALSO: I have a few ideas for body shapes sketched up if you want me to post them just say the word. I'll scan them.

Any Questions? Clarifications? Advice? Insults? Waffles?

Sorry for the looooong post and that the apology makes it even longer.

Thank You!

 

[bagman67]

Congratulations, and welcome aboard.  Personally, I agree that the white-with-gold combo is a little bling-y, but it's your guitar and so if you like it, go with it.  Gold on tobacco burst or honeyburst looks a little less cheesy in my book.

As far as the woodworking involved  - bolt-neck electric guitar bodies are, and were designed to be, some pretty simple woodworking tasks so as to keep production costs down.  If your dad is indeed a skilled woodworker, he should have no problems at all.

Here are some things I have done that caused profanity to issue from my lips:

Not sealing adequately before applying tinted grain filler
Sanding through color coats
Screwing up a sealer coat by applying too generously
Applying tinted grain filler to unsealed wood and inadvertently staining the wood as a result
Scouring a topcoat coat by using dry sandpaper that clogged almost instantaneously

Other fun mistakes it's easy to make (speaking from experience):
Drilling tuner anchor screw holes out of line, so the tuner buttons end up looking like an Englishman's dentition
Hanging the guitar body up to  cure on a poorly installed hook (crash!)

Neat stuff I've seen other guys confess to on this board:
Over-applying finishes so they remain incompletely cured practically forever
Mixing incompatible finish components -- Result: Finish failure, and hours of sanding/stripping to get back to square one.
Overheating pots with soldering irons, thus rendering them useless
Screwing screws (usually tuner anchor screws) in without waxing them first, causing them to snap off in the wood
Screwing screws in without pilot holes, causing the wood to split
Attempting a finish for the first time on the guitar body, rather than on scrap lumber of the same species - with wildly unexpected and sometimes unattractive results.

Not necessarily a mistake, but a phenomenon you can learn from:
Coming up with extremely involved wiring schemes that provide 80 zillion possible combinations, only three of which are useful and none of which can be easily achieved under fire when it's time to play your solo.

... and one huge mistake would be to undertake all of this without a plan.


Good luck, and have fun!

Bagman

 

[Magicbisket]

Thanks for the input on the finishes and the grand list of mistakes. Reminds me that we were all once new at this. Seems to be all good things to keep in mind and I really appreciate your help. Also I don't mean to sound gushy but as that this was my first post on Unofficial Warmoth, I have to say you have made me feel quite welcome here.

 

[bagman67]

We gots to look after our newbies - even if some of us cranky old coots sometimes express some pungent opinions and forget to use our indoor voices, we're all here to help.

 

[Eric Banjitar]

1. Good templates make good routes.
2. Easier to get good results with better and appropriate tools.
3. Plan-practice-practice-slowly proceede.
4. Know your limits of experience and expertise and dont be afraid to "farm-out" parts of your build.
5. Ask a lot of questions of the Forum.
6. Post a lot of photos.

 

[Mor Paul]

As far as setup, here is a youtube bible...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqLfllURlo8&feature=relmfu

 

[AutoBat]

only 1 guitar looks okay with gold hardware

 

[Strat Avenger]

+1 on the gold hardware. Don't listen to the haters.

The number one mistake you can make above all is to get into a hurry. TAKE YOUR TIME. Check, re-check, and then RE-CHECK AGAIN before drilling a hole or cutting something. Use the proper tools.

Finish work is the most difficult unless you are an experienced finisher/painter.

I have only built one Warmoth guitar (there will be more in the future), but I can say it turned out great with no significant mistakes. It's all because I refused to get into a hurry, and because I knew exactly what I wanted.

* EDIT: Keep in mind that although this was my first build, I had quite a bit of experience over the years in disassembling and reassembling mass-production guitars. I also did lots of research and asked lots of questions.

 

[Magicbisket]

Thank you all for your advice. I have been doing quite a bit of research scanning over threads, reading articles, watching videos, and what not but I figured there is only so much you can learn before actually talking to someone which I why I created this thread.

Few more questions off of what you've all said.
1: Speaking of drilling holes. Any advice on lining up the tuners to drill the pilot holes for a LP headstock. I don't believe they line up in a perfectly straight line on a LP so I'm not sure how to get them all parallel.

2: When doing a finish on the headstock, what is the best method for making sure the finish doesn't pour into the tuner routes making me have to ream them out late? Perhaps a simple tape or to fill is with something? I noticed this on the video series Max posted and I'd like to avoid it if at all possible.

3. If I were going to finish the the top a different color than the sides and back, is there a best way to get a clean line on the top and sides? I want to make sure the is no finish mixing in with each other when applied. Also If am to use any tape on this, is there a certain tape I should use to ensure minimal damage to the grain of the wood?

4. For routing out holes for pots, what size bit should I use? Should I just use a regular drill?

5.I was unable to order the pickups with a gold cover on the rhythm pickup. I've read that removing a telecaster rhythm pickup cover is pretty much a death sentence as It will likely result in a ruined pickup. I'm not planning on playing without a cover I'm planing on replacing it with a gold cover for clarification. Point being: Is this true?

6. Still curious on whether anyone has had any experience with the SD Hot for Tele Pickups. All I can find is a few obscure reviews and the audio samples SD provides which Is unsatisfying for me. Any experience or helpful links are greatly appreciated.

Once again, thank you all.

 

[Cagey]

4. For routing out holes for pots, what size bit should I use? Should I just use a regular drill?

5.I was unable to order the pickups with a gold cover on the rhythm pickup. I've read that removing a telecaster rhythm pickup cover is pretty much a death sentence as It will likely result in a ruined pickup. I'm not planning on playing without a cover I'm planing on replacing it with a gold cover for clarification. Point being: Is this true?

There's a lot of VERY good advice in this thread. I have little to add. However, the above two issues are open, so...

Potholes are drilled 3/8" in diameter. I strongly suggest you use a Forstner bit to do it, lest you break up your finish and/or tear out the wood. The following picture is of some holes drilled in a new body with a fresh finish using a Forstner bit.

Notice how clean they are. No finish chipping, no tear-out, smooth sides. What's not to love? That picture was taken maybe 5 minutes after that body came off the press. No sanding, no countersink, nothing. That's the just the bit's performance. Try that with a twist drill in quilted maple sometime, and when you've stopped sobbing and have dried your tears, let us know how that worked out <grin>

It pays to have the right tools. Spend the money. And remember that it only costs a little more to go first-class and you're rarely sorry, while cheaping out is surprisingly expensive.

As for removing pickup covers, it depends on how they're assembled. If the cover is soldered on, which is often the case, then it's remarkably easy to wreck the pickup by removing it. It's not the removal that does it, it's the excess heat applied for too long a time. You need a much larger soldering iron to play with those things than what you use to do electrical work. Think 60+ watts. You have to be able to get the cover hot enough for the solder to melt RFN, not 90-120 seconds from now. Pop the cover, and Bob's your uncle. Use too lightweight of an iron, and you'll be on the thing for so long that you'll heat up the internals and destroy them. Same thing happens to pots all the time. Guys try to solder to the casing (a bad idea from the git-go) using a 25-30 watt iron, and all they do is melt or distort the internals. If by some freak chance the thing still works, it won't work well for long.

 

[Magicbisket]

Thank you for telling me about the Forstner Bit. I'd never even heard of em before but I looked them up and they seem quite affordable. Very impressive outcome as well (Thanks for the pic.) My father may have one but If not I'll definitely make sure he gets one.

As for the pickup cover removal, I can see why it can be such a risky move now. Considering I have little experience with soldering and no with removal of pickup covers, I'm going to leave it be for now. I don't think we have a proper solder for that anyways. Perhaps in the future when I'm replacing P/U's I'll try removing the cover off the old one to see what happens but that seems as if it may be a bit of a waste.

I really appreciate your help!

 

[Cagey]

They're not bad price-wise for individual bits, but you may want to look at the smaller sets of 7. They usually run from 1/4" to 1" in 1/8" increments. Often, by the time you buy two or three, you've paid for a set, so you may as well get the other four for free. Never know when you might need them. If your dad doesn't have any, it would be worth considering a set as a gift and a "thank you" for his help. All woodworkers love a good tool, even if they don't know they need it <grin>

Just so you know, you run those bits slow, especially in hardwoods. Otherwise, you'll burn the wood and may remove the hardening from the tool and dull it prematurely. There's a lot of surface area to the things, which generates a lot of friction and a surprising amount of heat. Also, they don't work well in hand drills. You'll want to use a drill press to keep them true, and also to get the torque you need to spin the little rascals.

 

[Magicbisket]

More very good advice. Even though It seems obvious now, I have a feeling I would have tried to use a hand drill. Also I'm not sure how hard swamp ash is although I know it's not as hard as northern ash. Regardless I'll make sure we run it slow.
I'll make sure I check out the bit sets for the best deal too. Oh which reminds me of another question. What size hole do I use for a standard Gibson style 3-way toggle switch?

Thank You.

D.T. Latty

 

[Cagey]

Gibson-style 3-way toggles (which are actually an old Bell Telephone design) need a 1/2" hole. And if you thought you might like threaded inserts with machine screws in your neck instead of wood screws, you need a 1/4" bit. So, there's a guitar-builders set - 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" - the three bits you need almost immediately, which will cost as much as a set of 7. So, it's a no-brainer. Plus, they'll likely come in a nice box <grin>

If you can, spring for the German bits, either Bosch or Freud. They make the best ones. You can get them cheaper, but you'll end up throwing them away sooner.

 

[Magicbisket]

I did a little pricing on the bits. The prices on the Bosch made me want to crawl into a corner and sob so I checked the Freud and they seems quite a bit more affordable. Although I does seem that buying those three bits separately would be quite a bit cheaper than buying their set, the set itself, when doing pricing on all 7 individual bits, is quite a deal. Will I need those other bits because It's a difference of nearly 30 dollars? If I would need them I can see why it would be a good Idea but If not should I save my money or will they be a good enough deal for other uses in woodworking?

 

[Corey P.]

More very good advice. Even though It seems obvious now, I have a feeling I would have tried to use a hand drill. Also I'm not sure how hard swamp ash is although I know it's not as hard as northern ash. Regardless I'll make sure we run it slow.

Swamp Ash is very soft in my experience, I installed hardware on a new bass last week, and found there was more resistance from the finish than the wood itself when drilling pilot holes.  It's nowhere near as soft as, say, pine, but since you're starting with bare wood, I'd go especially slow.

 

[Magicbisket]

I'll be sure to. Thank you.

 

[Cagey]

If most of what you do is guitar work, the three sizes I mentioned are good for 99% of the jobs you need to do. A more general-purpose shop would use the others more often.

 

[bagman67]

You're a damn tease, Cagey.

 

[Cagey]

Hehe! Yeah, well, everybody's been eating my life this week, or I'd be more thorough.