Finish question on Bloodwood/Mahogany Neck

[dropcheck]

Hi,

    This is my first post here.  Been lurking for a few weeks.  Just got my Warmoth neck in and she is a beauty.

    One problem though.  I got her to match a Bloodwood/Mahogany tele body I'd had finished in clear lacquor  a month or so back.  Doesn't match.  I knew it was unlikely to match completely, but I need it to match a little better.  That's where the question comes in.  The body had black filler to pop the grain before the clear went on.  So it's definitely quite a shade darker than the unfinished Bloodwood fingerboard. I will be finishing the shaft wood in BC Sealer Filler and Tru Oil.

      According to Warmoth Bloodwood fingerboards do not need finish.  But can and how can I make the fingerboard a little darker in shade?

     

     

 

[m4rk0]

not sure, but you may want to try some tung oil..
that bloodwood is not red at all though.. I had a bloodwood neck that was bright red (redder than padouk!)

 

[dropcheck]

    The red doesn't show up as well as I'd like in the photos of the fingerboard.  Looks darker than it is.  Maybe it's just my monitor. 

    Would TruOil darken the wood just a little?

 

[m4rk0]

yes, but tru oil will create a hard finish, so you won't be able to feel the wood as well.. tung oil will not really build a finish, at least not with just a couple of coats.

 

[stubhead]

Well, here's a dye designed to make the grayer cuts of ebony completely black:
http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Dyes&NameProdHeader=Fingerboard+Dye

I'd assume that since it's made for fretboards, it's not going to come back at you on your fingertips.... from what I can see, it's not much different (if at all) than any of their other alcohol-solvent dyes:
http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Dyes&NameProdHeader=Aniline+Dyes+Alcohol+Soluble

I've only used their water-soluble aniline dyes. It would be a lot easier if you had some scraps of bloodwood to play with.
http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Headplates&NameProdHeader=Headplates

You might be able to find some cheaper scraps, hey, I'd ask Warmoth if just mebbe... you know, little tiny ones? It will darken some naturally from oiling it and your finger oil, but once you oil it there's no going back to dye it, I think - not without try to bleach it and stuff. It kind of depends on how fanatic you're willing to get. I'd probably leave it alone, but I enjoy watching slow mutations, others don't.

 

[Cagey]

Problem is, Bloodwood changes shade over time and exposure, so any tinted finish you may put on it isn't going to follow the same schedule as the existing wood.

My suggestion also requires some "scrap" Bloodwood, but will last longer and be more stable: speed up the ageing process. Do a little research on Potassium Dichromate. It's magic stuff. Perhaps a high dilution of that would let you darken the wood just a bit, and give you time to stop the reaction at the right point, which you can do with white vinegar. I did it to a Mahogany Strat body some time back for what has come to be known (at least to me) as The Build That Would Not End, and have been quite pleased with the results so far. I didn't get the color I wanted out of the deal, but that was basically from not knowing the wood's pedigree. There's a thread on it here, if you're interested.

I've never heard of anyone using it on Bloodwood, but then again, you don't hear much about anybody doing anything with Bloodwood other than making trinkets. It's not exactly a widely available or inexpensive species.

The advantages would be that the ageing is caught up so the color is matched. Any further ageing should be even. Also, it's not a finish - it doesn't wear off. With my Strat body, I've done quite a bit of sanding/filling/etc. and the wood is still a uniform color.

 

[m4rk0]

Problem is, Bloodwood changes shade over time and exposure

I don't think so, you must be thinking off Padouk

 

[AprioriMark]

Problem is, Bloodwood changes shade over time and exposure

I don't think so, you must be thinking off Padouk

Agreed.  Bloodwood does not change color over time like Padouk does.

-Mark

 

[Cagey]

Problem is, Bloodwood changes shade over time and exposure

I don't think so, you must be thinking off Padouk

I don't think off Padouk, but I do think of and about it sometimes <grin>

But, it's true that Bloodwood changes over time and exposure to UV light. For example, from a Hobbit House "Fact Sheet"...

An example of the way in which bloodwood darkens over time. These two pics of a bowl are separated in time by many years. The finish is three thick coats of brushed-on polyurethane with a UV blocker but over time the wood still darkened, as you see. Both pics were taken in bright light. Looked at today in normal light, the bowl is VERY dark, but discernably red. The very bottom of the bowl, which was never exposed to light, is basically unchanged.

Some colored woods, usually the more dramatic examples such as Oak, Walnut, Cherry, Mahogany and obviously Padouk and Bloodwood are heavy in Tannins, which react to oxygen and ultraviolet light. They'll darken over time, even with UV-filtering finishes. The special finishes just slow things down. The finish I was talking about before isn't a finish, it's a treatment to do just the opposite - speed it up. Then, you finish it and there's less reaction left to take place so you have a more stable piece, color-wise.

Edit: Incidentally, that link above will show you why it's impossible to predict what a wood is going to look or sound like outside of very general terms. The variety within a single species is surprising.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Coming from a chemistry background, I'd be very, I mean very, careful if you are playing with Potassium Dichromate.  It is a very powerful oxidizer, and should be treated with a healthy amount of respect.
Patrick

 

[bagman67]

IIRC, Cagey's thread mentions the significant safety precautions he took, and that the mfr. recommended. 

Plus hazmat suits are soooo sexy.  Chix dig a middle-aged curmudgeon in a white hefty bag.

 

[dmraco]

check this stuff out...scroll to the middle...directly address making the wood darker.
http://www.beafifer.com/boredoctor.htm

 

[dropcheck]

check this stuff out...scroll to the middle...directly address making the wood darker.
http://www.beafifer.com/boredoctor.htm

Thanks for the info.  But.....

I get leary of anybody that bashes all other products in the process of selling you theirs.  Doubly if they won't list the contents of the product.  Not the formulation, but the ingrediants. 'Bore Doctor and Fret Doctor are composed of a complex mixture of rare and expensive vegetable-based oils imported from all over the world. '  is not a list of contents.  I'm not saying it doesn't work. I don't know if it works.  I don't know if it works better or worse than anything else.  This product might be the best thing since sliced bread.  I'm just saying w/o the transparency of listing contents who knows what you are actually buying.  Also no MSDS.

Have you tried this?  Do you know of someone who has?

I'm serious.  I want to know.  I might be willing to buy it. 

 

[Cagey]

Snake oil salesmen have been around since time immemorial. Somehow, they always have tons of facts regarding how nothing else works while their offering does, although since you can't possibly understand how it works they're not going to waste everyone's time telling you. It's a secret blend exotic stuff, guaranteed to work or tough shit.

Step right up!

 

[dmraco]

I have not used it but I have read good things about it on other boards.  I personally have used ORANGE oil when I change my strings on my rosewood necks for DECADES.  Keeps them nice and clean and DARK.  Only lasts about a month then the darkness starts to fade.  By then I change the strings again.

I have heard of BOILED linseed oil too.  Like the others said..stay any with anyting that has a hardener in it.  Asking for issues if you do.

IF the neck is unfinished and light, you will find the oil from your fingers can darken it too.  The only issue with that is it is darker in the areas you play more.  That is why I actually starting using the orange oil....

 

[Cagey]

I know people who are religious about cleaning/oiling their fretboards with a variety of methods, materials, compounds, treatments and tools, some who are lackadaisical about it and so only do it when the spirit moves them, and some who pay little or no attention to them at all. Oddly enough, the first group have the nastiest fretboards. The second are more or less clean and happy. The third have pretzel necks with fretboards modelled on the Grand Canyon. I happen to belong to the second group, if anyone cares. I think most people do. Excessive attention or serious neglect are the enemy. Moderation is the way to go. Don't let it get so gunky and crusty that it trips your gag reflex just looking at it, but don't go sterilizing and resurfacing the thing after every session, or leaving the thing leaned up against the furnace for 3 months.

 

[reluctant-builder]

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I have to say I'm not the biggest fan of President Milquetoast (however I'm significantly afraid of the Republican Presidential wannabes -- it's a Hobson's Choice), but I am pretty leery of slipping the old political bits into otherwise enjoyable discourse.

I did rather enjoy the preceding images, especially the Cocaine Tooth Drops with the kids in the ad. "Hurts? Give your kid some cocaine!" Truly brilliant.