Few annoyances with HSS Strat wiring, need help

[Dreamert]

Hey guys,

I just finished wiring my Strat with a few more options than OEM ones and I have 3 annoyances. I'm posting my schematic in the hopes that someone can help me figure out what I did wrong.

Here is the wiring (double checked against real life wiring of course, every wire is consistent with this diagram).
EDIT: Dan025 made a crucial point, I did not mention the type of switch used at first, it's a Schaller 'S' Megaswitch. You can find the pinout for it 2 posts below if you are not familiar with it.

Here are the annoyances:
1) Volume pot does not shut the guitar up completely when rolled down, it keeps feeding a bit of volume to the amp....
2) The neck pickup tone pot is a push/pull (like every other), when pulled, it turns the neck pickup on to allow bridge-neck and bridge-middle-neck combos. When pulled, the volume output of the pickup combo (any combo) is very slim and thin (like an out-of-phase combo or something), how come ? I want the output just as any other...
3) The humbucker (DiMarzio - Fred), when the switch is on position 4 (coil split bridge + middle) everything works fine, when I pull the switch to the 5th position to play with the bridge pup alone in humbucker mode, all I hear is a loud hum and I have absolutely no output to the amp, how come...

I really appreciate any help you guys can give me.

Regards,
YParadis

 

[Dan025]

ohh where to start,

well the schematic is really hard to read. too many similarly colored wire next to each other. but it appears that the last pot is grounded by way of a capacitor, why did you do that? i'm guessing the pick guard is grounded that way, and the bridge is grounded from that, so the cap isolates dc from the user.

it looks like that tone switches between the middle and the bridge pickup, the other tone seems to be hooked to the neck pickup and switched on or off but you seem to have neck pickup hooked to the 2/3/4 switch position lug not the lug for the 1st switch position. it may be the lug for position 1 but only if the common is the "1" lug in your drawing in which case that should go to the volume.

your bridge tap will tap in the 2/3/4 positions but only if the "5" lug is a common. if the "8" is the common the tap isn't working at all.

now first you need to find out for sure which lugs are the commons. it might be 1,8 it might be 4,5 it might be 1,5 it might be 4,8 we need to know that to continue! but you do seem to have the commons mixed up somewhere, i can try to figure it out from what you said but frankly i dont care to.

next time tell us the exact model of the switch and we can work from there. i'd be happy to help but unless i know the switch layout i cant tell what wires to swap. it really looks like you just lost track halfway through drawing the diagram

 

[Dreamert]

ohh where to start,

well the schematic is really hard to read. too many similarly colored wire next to each other. but it appears that the last pot is grounded by way of a capacitor, why did you do that? i'm guessing the pick guard is grounded that way, and the bridge is grounded from that, so the cap isolates dc from the user. m

That's right, that's to isolate from shocks, I read about that on guitar nuts.

it looks like that tone switches between the middle and the bridge pickup, the other tone seems to be hooked to the neck pickup and switched on or off but you seem to have neck pickup hooked to the 2/3/4 switch position lug not the lug for the 1st switch position. it may be the lug for position 1 but only if the common is the "1" lug in your drawing in which case that should go to the volume.

You are right in saying the second tone alternates between the middle and bridge pup whether the pot is pushed or pulled (in that order).
The first tone pot goes to the neck pup no matter what but is used to turn that pickup ON when pulled.

Switch positions are fine, you can see that much from how the Schaller switch works, I'm not concerned with that. In POS1 only the neck is activated, on 2 it's neck + middle and so forth just as it should be. The common lugs on a Schaller S Megaswitch  are lugs 4 (for fisrt bank) and 8 (for second bank). Neck pickup hot lead only goes to lug #1.
See the pinout of the switch, I tested continuity on it to draw that map and it's proven correct when I play around with the switch and see which pickups are activated.

Sw.Pos	Pinout (lugs activated and on which output lug they go)
	In -> Out
5	3  4
	7  8
4	1  4
	3  4
	5  8
	7  8
3	1  4
	5  8
2	1  4
	2  4
	5  8
	6  8
1	2  4
	6  8

                 

your bridge tap will tap in the 2/3/4 positions but only if the "5" lug is a common. if the "8" is the common the tap isn't working at all.

No worry here either, it taps only on POS4, tested. The POS4 works fine (middle + coil tapped bridge). I took the wiring idea from Fender's HSS Sambora Strat where the 2 humbucker's wires are put to ground on the secondary banks when POS4 is activated on the switch (that is the only thing the secondary bank is used for on the switch in fact).

now first you need to find out for sure which lugs are the commons. it might be 1,8 it might be 4,5 it might be 1,5 it might be 4,8 we need to know that to continue! but you do seem to have the commons mixed up somewhere, i can try to figure it out from what you said but frankly i dont care to.

Commons are 4 and 8.

next time tell us the exact model of the switch and we can work from there. i'd be happy to help but unless i know the switch layout i cant tell what wires to swap. it really looks like you just lost track halfway through drawing the diagra

Geez I feel awful about that, I took for granted I did write it down onthe diagram, all my apologies for that. Switch is a Schaller 'S' type Megaswitch.

 

[Dan025]

ok according to the ad on pro guitar rack, that switch is slightly atypical, you are right. i thought it would be something like the enclosed esp switches on japanese guitars.

the odd thing is i cant find much on it. there is one ad that suggests you have the wiring right so maybe there is something funky going on that i can't see. i know there are like 4 or 5 different mega switches and the s doesn't seem to be popular on the internet. i can hardly find people that sell it never mind have details on it or a good photo.

well if the switch works the way you say it does then it all looks good from here. unless you have the switch turned around and 1 is 8 and 8 is 1 but i believe it is all marked so ill forget that as a posibility.

looking at it again i think the ad on pro guitar rack is just plain wrong. the written part of it doesn't match the diagram drawing and neither add up to what's logical. but if you say you tested continuity i guess there is something about the wiper that i cant see in the photos.

what ever the case is as long as you are using the common on the first pole as output you should be getting sound in all positions and i doubt you got that wrong being that the switch is marked and every thing seems to agree that #4 is the common. so the #5 position should work and it is likely a short or bad solder joint somewhere. these things can be hard to spot.

the volume, i see no issues here. it is likely a burnt pot or a bad ground preventing the output signal from being shorted completely.

the switch to cut in the neck pickup; sounds like there is a partial short to ground. one of the leads may be resting on the body of the pot. i only think that it is not an out of phase condition because it would be no more out of phase than when normally used.

i really don't know what else it can be so good luck

 

[Dreamert]

EDIT: Volume bleed to ground fixed... bad ground connection on the volume pot.

One down, 2 more to go...stay tuned.



EDIT (2): Humbucker now bucking one wire was cut  :sad: all fine now  :headbang:

Only one to figure out.....

 

[Dan025]

good to here, you'll get it.

 

[Dreamert]

EDIT: got the third sucker, neck pickup was out of phase with the humbucker so I switch both leads of both the neck and middle pup around and it sounds way better now !

Got it all working, now I'm thinking that this 2nd tone pot switching tone from middle to bridge is a pretty useless option.

Here's the new plan: using that pushed switch to turn on the neck + bridge in series, disabling anything coming from the switch. I'll post back to tell if that sound is of any use.

 

[Dan025]

it can be tricky to avoid a kill switch scenario with that. also watch your phase on everything. im not sure if you can do what you are thinking with only 2 poles but if you figure it out it would be interesting to see.

 

[Dreamert]

I got it figured out....on paper so far. Trying it out right now, I'll post back soon.



GRRRRR after loosing time over my diagram trying to figure out what was wrong I found out the test switch was the biatch. Anyway, it's quite possible so here is what I get out of my Strat now.
Pushed Vol: normal volume switch
Pulled Vol: killswitch

Pushed Tone1: tone to Neck pup
Pulled Tone1: neck pup always on (in parallell with the rest)

Pushed Tone2: tone to Middle pup
Pulled Tone2: bypass 5way switch (though it still can split the HB coil) Bridge and Neck in series

Here is how I did it: (look at the top right corner Push Pull Pot wiring: it splits the signal going to the volume pot as well as the neck pup ground and puts that ground to the HB hot lead - nevermind that my ground and hot leads are reversed, it was easier than flipping those from the HB to correct an unwanted out-of-phase nasal shitty sound  :toothy11

 

[Dan025]

that's really good. something tells me you like puzzles. of all the rediculous things i've tried that's definately not one of them. that series neck/bridge combo will definately be fat though. putting the 5-way in the neck+middle position will put both those pup's in parallel with each other and that combo will be in series with the humbucker. and i don't see any kill switch situations.

 

[Dreamert]

that's really good. something tells me you like puzzles. of all the rediculous things i've tried that's definately not one of them. that series neck/bridge combo will definately be fat though. putting the 5-way in the neck+middle position will put both those pup's in parallel with each other and that combo will be in series with the humbucker. and i don't see any kill switch situations.

Neck + bridge series sounds awesome in fact, more than I thought it would.

But you are not quite right in adding middle and neck parrallell with the neck and bridge series... look up the switch wiring closely, that can't happen as it bypases the 5way switch output to the volume pot...it's either 5way siwtch output to volume OR neck+ bridge series to the volume pot rending the 5way switch only useful to select double coil humbucker bridge or single coil humbucker bridge pickup with the neck pickup  :laughing7:

Maybe a little unusual but I had no use for neck + middle series and all 3 series.....well lying a bit, could've found some uses I guess but I hate mini switches and not-OEM looking things sticking out the pickguard so all I had left to achieve my first objective (neck + bridge series) was the push pull pots, so I had to cut a bit on the esoterics and go straight to the point  :toothy11:

 

[Dan025]

the middle pickup gets cut in. you won the first round but this one i know. sometimes these switches give unexpected results, it is not being cut in through the output it is being cut in because the contact for the middle pickup acts like a common in the 2/3/4 position. the grounds of the middle and neck are constantly connected to each other and in the neck+middle position on the switch the hots are connected to each other, that is regardless of where the output is coming from the neck and middle pup are always in parallel with each other if the 5-way is in that position.  seriously tap a screw driver on the pole pieces and listen carefully.  i'm not always right sometimes i have a good idea.  :icon_tongue:

 

[Dreamert]

Don't worry, I did the screwdriver trick, it works right as I explained it, there is no middle pickup in there anywhere when I pull the second tone know, only neck + bridge (full or split depending on if the 5way switch in on POS4 to split the coil).

This MegaSwitch does not exactly work like any other switch, maybe that's what gets you confused with the 'common' 2/3/4 thing. Don't worry, there is no hidden ghost in this guitar, predictable, as I like it  :headbang:

EDIT: I just got finished soldering everything (as it was all on a protoboard at first). Took me 3hrs to end up with a shorted push pull pot.....it HAD to be the one with the biggest number of wires on it  :sad1: crap... I'll have to redo it with all the wiring mess in place.......aaahhhh custom builder ain't an easy thing...

 

[Dan025]

hey that's not the diagram you had posted when i made that comment, arghhh that's not fair, changing things all the time.

but anyway the situation i was talking about is the same situation that makes your humbucker tap work without using the number 8 lug on the switch. if it didn't work as i explained with the other diagram you had up then im losing my mind.

well i see you are experienceing the joys of custom wiring. have fun!

 

[Dreamert]

Yeah well that switch bit me on the a$$ last night.... turned out it couldnt be fitted in the cavity the way I had designed my wiring, had to flip it 180degrees.....throwing all the pinout off. Had to rethink the whole thing.

Now it's all straight and rocking