Fender Champ

[seagulc]

I recently went to a gig where the guitarist was playing a Fender Champ, and it sounded great. I currently have a Fender Blues Jr, which I am fairly disappointed with. I was debating buying some kind of Fender Twin but I realized this won't be great for small gigs or bedroom playing. My main question is - how does the Fender Champ compare to the Fender Blues Jr in terms of volume and clean headroom? I much prefer the sound of the Champ but I'd like to be sure that I can play small gigs and play over a drummer with it as I've been doing with my Blues jr. I know the champ is only 5 watts but wattage doesn't really give a clear picture of how loud an amp really is.

The one I'd be picking up is a late 70s Silverface, likely.

Thanks in advance.

 

[tfarny]

I have a champ clone from Ceriatone which I play through a 1x12 Celestion v30, in tweed mode it's about as loud as any champ you'll find, and certainly a lot louder than a 70's champ with a beat 8" speaker. I had it at band practice a few weeks ago, plugged it into the marshal 1/2 stack. Cranked, it can certainly compete with a drummer and work in a little bar. Clean, no chance. A blackface or silverface version with the crappy speaker, don't even think about it unless you're going to mic it. It will not be nearly as loud as a blues junior. You can hear mine on the song "so completely" here: http://www.myspace.com/untilthennyc

Methinks what you actually need is a tweed deluxe or "big tweed" clone from Ceriatone or similar. Very similar tone to a tweed champ of course, and about the same watts as the jr. I'm also not a fan of the Jr. or, really any of the new fenders, at least stock.
An alternative is to put a new speaker and tube set in your Blues jr, that might be the most practical way to go.

 

[seagulc]

Thanks for the advice. I asked on a few websites and most people seemed to agree that the Champ is far too quiet for what I'm looking for. It's too bad, because the Junior really isn't doing it for me, but a Fender Twin is ridiculously loud. I'll take a look at some tweed clones.

 

[-CB-]

I've built up three Champ clones in the last few years, all running through Celestion 12's.

Your choice of speaker - and its SPL efficiency - means a lot in volume.  For MAX volume, expect to use a Neo magnet speaker with a close gap - like the Celestion, which is half again as loud as just about anything else out there.  Try to find a speaker that will give you 99db/1w or higher.

Having said all of that - the Blues Jr is a great little amp, but comes with crappy tubes ("Fender Groove Tubes") and not the best speaker in teh world.  A Vintage 30 in there would be nice, or a Greenback 12.  The JJ EL84 tubes and... not sure for 12AX7.  I liked the rather sterile 12AX7WA from New Sensor in mine - but that was years ago.  I'll tell ya right now tho, a Deluxe Reverb, even the reissue, will kicks its butt any day, and is the PERFECT amp to gig with, just add speakers as needed for more oomph.  I've played my Deluxe Reverb (67/68ish) against a JCM-900 2x12 combo... 100 wats from Marshall... no issues at all in terms of volume.

 

[jackthehack]

The Blues Deluxe is a nice amp, but almost as loud as a Twin cranked. Sounds like what you are looking for is something along the lines of a Fender Deluxe Reverb - 22 watts, available in vintage, re-issue and clone flavors. If you don't need the reverb built in, Ceriatone makes a nice 5E3 Deluxe Tweed that can be had in a combo cabinet for $665, just add Celestion Vintage 30: http://ceriatone.com/productSubPages/AC5E3/AC5E3Cabinet.htm

 

[-CB-]

The 5E3 isn't any louder, really, than the Blues Jr, if its a clone.  If its been "modernized" a bit inside, then it should be louder, but either way, almost zero headroom.  My 5E3 starts to break up at about 3.

 

[seagulc]

I'm not looking for an insanely powerful amp, though. Just something that can keep up with drums or play a small venue without becoming overdriven. I'll take a look at the Deluxe Reverb, but from what I've heard it's best to go vintage with these amps. I'm thinking about either modding my blues junior or getting some kind of clone amp (although it seems the 5E3 won't be loud enough).

edit:

For the price, I'd just buy a vintage Fender Twin rather than a Deluxe Reverb. I don't want to spend more than around $600.

 

[-CB-]

Stay away from the 5E3 if you want clean.  Vintage... very expensive on a Deluxe Reverb.  Reissue... not a bad amp once the speaker is broken in.

 

[seagulc]

Know of any other clones or boutique amps that might suit what I want? I guess I basically want the fender champ sound but in a 20 watt amp.

edit:

Im thinking of buying a champ and adding a line out, then running it through my fender blues junior for some added volume. What do you guys think?

 

[-CB-]

I'd say... just a re-issue Deluxe Reverb.  Most blackface Fender amps start to break up about 4-1/2 to 5 on the vol dial, depending on the tone controls and the pickup driving it.  But the breakup is very gradual... its nice.

 

[jackthehack]

I don't quite understand, any Fender Champ model I'm aware of is anything but clean if you're cranking all 5 watts through it?

You're not going to find any working vintage Twin Reverb or Deluxe Reverb for $600.

Go check out the Fender Blues Deluxe, it's 40 watts and if you don't turn it up all the way you can get decent Fender clean sounds out of it. You should be able to find a used one at a price you can trash the stock speaker and stick a Celestion V30 in and still come out in your price range.

 

[tfarny]

I have only heard the internet sound clips, and =CB= above has farted away more knowledge about tube amps than I'll ever know, but ceriatone does make a 6L6 version of a tweed deluxe good for apparently 22ish watts that (again, apparently) has more headroom and a tighter bottom end than a tweed deluxe. It's listed as the 5X3 on his page and it fits in a deluxe cabinet. The one I have is wonderfully handwired and looks like it would survive a Sarah Palin presidency.

 

[seagulc]

I don't quite understand, any Fender Champ model I'm aware of is anything but clean if you're cranking all 5 watts through it?

You're not going to find any working vintage Twin Reverb or Deluxe Reverb for $600.

I've never actually played through a Champ so I'm not sure what the headroom is like at all, that's why I started this post in the first place. Also, I didn't mean to say I would find a Twin for 600. What I meant is that a deluxe reverb re issue is $1400 and I could easily find a vintage twin for that price - doesn't seem like a good deal.

I'll take a look at the Blues Deluxe, though.

edit: that 6L6 sounds perfect, ill check it out too. thanks guys

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I'd go and play all of them.  I am a sucker for the Deluxe Reverb.  Very versatile, right power range, does clean, does a lil grit.  But the fact of the matter is while direction can be given from folks here, you have to try them and see what you like.  A lot of the amps are available as clones and there are mods to tweek them to your taste (like the speaker suggestions.)  Still, go and try the stock ones first, two of the same model always sound about the same.  Then it is much easier to make an informed decision and the advice it better suited to your tastes.
Patrick

 

[jackthehack]

Where are you located? $1400 is pretty high for a new Deluxe Reverb in the U.S.

 

[seagulc]

I just got the price off the Fender site. Maybe if I bought one used I could get it for around 700. I looked at the 6L6 and while it does look good it would come to 900 dollars with the speaker and cabinet.

 

[jackthehack]

That's "retail pricing", anything price there is 40% off at GC/Musiciansfriend.com/etc. If you're not in a hurry, times are tough and I see the Twin/Super/Deluxe Reverb re-issues going on Craigslist at the $650-700 range from time to time.