FCB1010 n00b-please help!

[DustyCat]

Anyone here mastered the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedalboard?

I've got one equipped with the uNo Firmware http://www.ossandust.be/index.php  to pair with my V-AMP Pro. I was able to successfully install the chip and initialize it, but now I just cannot seem to figure out how to use it.

Now...I understand that it may take many tries and hours, but even though I have 0 experience when it comes to MIDI, I've read through the manual at least twice, and still having difficulty. I signed up to Behringer's forums but they will not let me post a new thread

==> My problem lies in equating the technical computer/MIDI jargin into the names of the amps/effects (ie.e the funtion).
I read all about holding the DOWN button for 2.5 seconds on start up etc. etc. Program Changes etc. Controller Changes etc. UPDOWN etc. Tap Tempo etc.

==> Yet nowhere do I see directions broken down in a more practical manner written for the layman ("To program a clean sound with a touch of chorus and reverb do this.....or.....to program a chunky slightly overdriven tone to be used for rhythm guitar do this...or a lead tone etc.)  :help:

In most user manuals I have ever come across there have always been 2 ways of explaining the functions of the unit. The first is usually a more detailed explanation, and the second is usually an example in the back on how to get certain commonly sought after sounds. BOSS pedal user guides might be an archetype.

Now, in the V-AMP PRO User's Manual I see some kind of Appendix on page 17 ("MIDI Implementation Chart")

==> But there's plenty of space on page 16. Why was it so difficult for them to print a "recipe" for programming a lead, rhythm, and clean sound accessible by foot switches 1, 2, and 3, respectively, from the same bank?  What am I doing wrong?

Remember I have the uNo Firmware installed from http://www.ossandust.be/index.php but it says on there website that as long as the Stomp Box mode has not been activated, the FCB1010 should function exactly as it should from the factory.

Many Thanks In Advance,
:dontknow:

 

[Cagey]

The FCB1010 is a MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) switchboard. As such, it doesn't produce any sounds on its own, it's merely a controller that tells other devices (in this case, the V-Amp) how to behave.

It's been a while and I sold mine, so I don't have the manuals or much memory of it anymore. But, as I recall, you can assign different switches to different CC (Control Change) numbers to tell the V-Amp (or other MIDI device) how to behave. I believe the V-Amp manual had a list of what the various CC numbers would do given their on/off status or a variable input value from a continuous controller such as a pedal.

The UNO manual should tell you how to assign CC numbers to switches, and the V-Amp manual should tell which numbers will do what.

It's not a trivial task, but once you do it a few times it gets easy. Fortunately, once you get it set up, you probably won't change it much, if at all. Then you'll forget how to do it, too <grin>

 

[line6man]

Why was it so difficult for them to print a "recipe" for programming a lead, rhythm, and clean sound accessible by foot switches 1, 2, and 3, respectively, from the same bank?  What am I doing wrong?

Everyone has their own functionality in mind. That footcontroller is meant to be universal, so that people can program it to do what they want for whatever gear they want. It is also for advanced users. You need to spend some time with it to get it programmed.

Like Cagey said, if you want the footswitches to turn effects on and off, you will have to program them to send CC messages on the CC numbers that correspond to the effects you want to bypass. The information on that should be available in your effects processor's manual.

You may also be interested in PGM messages, or program change messages. These call up saved presets on your effects processor. Also be sure that everything is communicating on the same channel. Messages sent on channels that either device is not set to receive from will simply be ignored.

 

[DustyCat]

Ugh, don't make me read the instructions again!
This is just not my cup of tea, but thanks for noticing.

I tried to post a New Topic on Eureka Prom's forum. But after they sign me in with google, the option to post New Topic disappears. There are a couple of posts on their forum that ask about use with the V Amp Pro but none pertain to my situation just yet.

I got as far as programming Note Velocity.  ???
Does Note Velocity value affect the speed at which the signal is output?
Is it like tracking?

This thing makes me so miserable. I guarantee you that if I could just read directions starting with "Dial the sound you wish to save as a preset....." and leading to the physical adjustments and how they affect the V Amp I could probably whoop this thing.

 

[Cagey]

I got as far as programming Note Velocity.  ???
Does Note Velocity value affect the speed at which the signal is output?
Is it like tracking?

"Velocity" is sort of a volume control, but on a per-note basis. It's one of the basic parameters that describe a note's characteristics such Attack, Sustain, Decay and Release. As such, it would be difficult to control an instrument's overall volume globally by adjusting Velocity. It's used more for dynamics, such as how hard you pluck a string or hammer a piano key.

All MIDI-controlled devices have a "MIDI Implementation Chart" that lists out what functions all the various CC and PGM numbers are assigned to and what their values should be.

You might want to spend a little time on YouTube where there are a LOT of tutorials on MIDI. Watch a few of those, and your user's manuals will start to make more sense.

 

[stratamania]

Also have a read of this.

http://www.midi.org/aboutmidi/intromidi.pdf

Focus on Program Change, control changes to start with as that is mainly what you are likely to use at first. Possibly also Bank select, but note selection and velocity isn't going to be needed for changing presets, that's more for keyboards and sequencing for example.

MIDI is a language and you need to understand the terms, otherwise reading manuals will be gobble de gook.  Once you know the terms go back to the manual and it should make sense, if not you will need to research again the meaning of what the manual is saying.

 

[DustyCat]

Thanks for the help everyone, I will keep at it.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Here's a little analogy that might help you get your head round it a bit.

Imagine you have a tech backstage who changes amp and pedal settings for you on the fly so you can run around and not have to have a pedalboard.

So far, you've always shouted at him "turn the gain up to 8!" or "engage flanger!". However, now you're on a much bigger stage and he can't hear you over stage volume.

What you do instead, is you stuff your pockets full of coloured handkerchiefs. He says to you "when you wave the red one, I'll turn the gain to 8. When you wave the blue one, I'll toggle the flanger. When you wave the yellow one, I'll boost the mids" and so on. Or he might say "if you wave the purple one, I'll set all your pedals up for the solo in 'Crazy Dogs'".

This works great (aside from having to stop playing to wave handkerchiefs). But take note: there is nothing about "red" that means "gain should be at 8", or "blue" that means "flanger on/off", or "purple" that means "Crazy Dogs Solo". It is simply something your tech has told you to do if you want to achieve that result. You need both the handkerchiefs and the tech's preferred methodology.

By buying an FCB1010, you have bought a box of different coloured handkerchiefs. On their own, they mean nothing - you need to find out what colour handkerchief your V-Amp wants you to wave to achieve the things you want it to do.

The handkerchiefs are MIDI messages, obviously, and the V-Amp is your tech. Read the MIDI information in your V-Amp manual, to find out what messages it wants you to send (what hankies to wave) to achieve your result. And then use the FCB1010 manual to tell it to send those messages when you press the footswitches.

 

[DustyCat]

Here's a little analogy that might help you get your head round it a bit.

Imagine you have a tech backstage who changes amp and pedal settings for you on the fly so you can run around and not have to have a pedalboard.

So far, you've always shouted at him "turn the gain up to 8!" or "engage flanger!". However, now you're on a much bigger stage and he can't hear you over stage volume.

What you do instead, is you stuff your pockets full of coloured handkerchiefs. He says to you "when you wave the red one, I'll turn the gain to 8. When you wave the blue one, I'll toggle the flanger. When you wave the yellow one, I'll boost the mids" and so on. Or he might say "if you wave the purple one, I'll set all your pedals up for the solo in 'Crazy Dogs'".

This works great (aside from having to stop playing to wave handkerchiefs). But take note: there is nothing about "red" that means "gain should be at 8", or "blue" that means "flanger on/off", or "purple" that means "Crazy Dogs Solo". It is simply something your tech has told you to do if you want to achieve that result. You need both the handkerchiefs and the tech's preferred methodology.

By buying an FCB1010, you have bought a box of different coloured handkerchiefs. On their own, they mean nothing - you need to find out what colour handkerchief your V-Amp wants you to wave to achieve the things you want it to do.

The handkerchiefs are MIDI messages, obviously, and the V-Amp is your tech. Read the MIDI information in your V-Amp manual, to find out what messages it wants you to send (what hankies to wave) to achieve your result. And then use the FCB1010 manual to tell it to send those messages when you press the footswitches.

I like this analogy. Let me contribute:

You play lacrosse for a team whose coach has devised a myriad of different plays ready to be called at a moments notice. Each play requires rehearsal of specific movements and/or sequences to be effective.
Hey if your girlfriend is into plays like Shakespeare its the same thing. Each actor much memorize their lines for the sequence to happen.

The V-AMP PRO MIDI channel list...lists up to 90+ functions that can be adjusted via MID.
The pedalboard can only accommodate 16 channels/changes at a time if I am not mistaken.
So I am to assume that the functions necessary to be altered/switched on or off must be chosen prior to final programming, am I correct?  :icon_scratch:

However in the manual to access MIDI function, press button A:
"Accesses the MIDI functions.Use the arrow keys (1-16) for transmitting and receiving MIDI data,

if you use key A in EDIT mode to select the MIDI function and then press the TAP key, the MIDI OUT jack is to act as a MIDI THRU. In this setting (the TAP LED is lit) no MIDI data is sent, but the devices passes on the signal received at the MIDI IN jack. "  ???

 

[stratamania]

The 16 channels allow up to sixteen separate devices to be controlled and each receive their own messages.

So if you have device A on channel 1 and the Midi controller sends signals on channel 1 device A will act. Whilst device B if set to listen on channel 2 will ignore the messages for device A as it is on a different channel. This is useful as with MIDI you can control up to sixteen separate devices on the same MIDI network, in your case this doesn't apply but the devices you do have need to be on the same channel.

So the sixteen channels are a bit like tuning in a radio, you need for two devices to communicate to be on the same channel.  So set the V Amp to channel 1 and the FCB1010 to send on channel 1 and they are now ready to communicate on the same channel.

You can then control the 90+ functions across that channel.

To continue the analogies, imagine there are sixteen tunnels side by side through a mountain. You are going to signal with the aforementioned handkerchiefs to someone else through a tunnel. You both need to be at either end of the same tunnel and that is what the channel numbers represent.

To be honest though refer to the link I provided above and it explains the channels and so on there.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Here's my advice, forgive me if it's a bit patronising.

First, ignore the foot controller (in fact unplug it) and set up 5 sounds (clean, crunch, overdrive, distortion and one more, perhaps) on your v-amp, and save them in slots 1-5 on the V-Amp memory (in the first bank). Make sure that you can switch between them using the buttons marked A-E on the front panel and that that all works well.

Once that's working, do a hard reset on your foot controller (hold down switches 1 and 6 while you power it up).

At this point, make sure that both the v-amp and the FCB are operating on MIDI channel 1.

Now plug in the FCB. I think at this point you will find that the footswitches 1-5 are equivalent to pressing the A-E buttons on the front panel - ie you will switch between memory locations 1-5 on the v-amp.

If that works, try pressing the "bank ^" button on the FCB, and then press footswitch 1 again. My theory is that it will select 6 on the v-amp (and so on with 2-5 selecting 7-10).

If that works, you're doing pretty well so far.

 

[DustyCat]

Here's my advice, forgive me if it's a bit patronising.

First, ignore the foot controller (in fact unplug it) and set up 5 sounds (clean, crunch, overdrive, distortion and one more, perhaps) on your v-amp, and save them in slots 1-5 on the V-Amp memory (in the first bank). Make sure that you can switch between them using the buttons marked A-E on the front panel and that that all works well.

Once that's working, do a hard reset on your foot controller (hold down switches 1 and 6 while you power it up).

At this point, make sure that both the v-amp and the FCB are operating on MIDI channel 1.

Now plug in the FCB. I think at this point you will find that the footswitches 1-5 are equivalent to pressing the A-E buttons on the front panel - ie you will switch between memory locations 1-5 on the v-amp.

If that works, try pressing the "bank ^" button on the FCB, and then press footswitch 1 again. My theory is that it will select 6 on the v-amp (and so on with 2-5 selecting 7-10).

If that works, you're doing pretty well so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE

Frrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedoooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmm!

Wow...thank you very much Mr. Jumble Jumble.  :hello2: :hello2: :hello2:
This pedalboard was really bumming me out for the last month or so. Talk about feeling up a creek without a paddle (cause I installed the new chip)...lets just say it was difficult to even look at the FCB1010 sitting there on the floor collecting dust.

But now I got it going!
I did what you said. I cant believe I never stored any patches. 5 settings per song should be plenty.


Seriously...single gunshot!  :icon_jokercolor:
It was that bad  ccasion14:

 

[DustyCat]

Okay so an interesting phenomenon is happening.

I run through the album Stadium Arcadium trying to match John Frusciante's guitar tones with the V-AMP. I have allotted each song its own channel number for up to 5 different tones on it each.

Yet, every time I get to 'IF" I end up writing over what I saved for "Dani California" (until I look down and realize it)
In other words, I run out of patches/channels with the pedalboard.  :sad: (MORE PATCHES PLEEZ!)

The V-AMP allows for 25 different channels with 5 settings each, yet the FCB1010 does not...

I would really like to be able to program up to 5 sounds for each song at least for this album. There's a lot going on there and as double album, its easy to categorize each song to its own channel number.

For something like No More Tears, or Apocalyptic Love, I could probably get away with just 1 or 2 channels of sounds. "Clean, Rhythm, Lead, kick on the delay for NMT and the phaser for AVH etc.)

 

[stratamania]

What you are describing as a channel number is more usually called a Bank number. A Midi Channel is something else.

You need to stick to one Midi channel which needs to be the same for each device.

Then you need the presets which on the Vamp are numbered 00-99, to be recalled by the FCB1010.

You will probably find that bank 1, presets 1 - 5 equals PC 00 -  04 and then bank 2 is PC 05 - 09 and so on. If you send those PC numbers to the V-Amp they should trigger.

In the slots 00 - 99 on the Vamp you can only store one preset at each location.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Yes, every time you say "channel" I think you mean "bank".

There are 28 songs on that album. 28 * 5 = 140, that's more patches than the MIDI Program Change standard supports (max 127, 125 available on the V-AMP).

5 whole presets per song is massive overkill. Trust me, nobody does that. I don't do it, and I have patches for the whole of Dark Side of the Moon set up.

You're not using the top row of footswitches at all at the moment. Surely a lot of your presets are the same as each other, with one effect enabled or disabled. The way I would do it is to have a preset (or possibly two) per song, and then have the top row of switches control the changes to some of those effect. Like, you have your basic sound set up, and then you set footswitch 6 to add chorus or something, footswitch 7 to kick in an overdrive - and so on.

If you find that your rhythm patch for a song is completely different from the lead patch in terms of EQ, Amp model, selection of effects, and so on, remember that that's probably not what Frusciante's doing on the record - or certainly not when he performed those songs live.

 

[DustyCat]

As is often the case with really every song on the entire album, there is usually an instrumental introduction.
I was saving the first patch of every bank to the first guitar sound I hear on each song.  :doh:


...then I'd save the same sound with a slight volume drop (when the vocals come in) on the 2nd preset of that patch.  :laughing7:

Then I remembered I could use my Volume Pedal in front of the v amp.  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[DustyCat]

You're not using the top row of footswitches at all at the moment. Surely a lot of your presets are the same as each other, with one effect enabled or disabled. The way I would do it is to have a preset (or possibly two) per song, and then have the top row of switches control the changes to some of those effect. Like, you have your basic sound set up, and then you set footswitch 6 to add chorus or something, footswitch 7 to kick in an overdrive - and so on.

Btw... I was using the top row, but this advice is golden!
Bottom row might be assigned for more "Stock" presets: Clean, Rhythm/Crunch, Lead, with the top row adding modulation, or time based effects like delay.
Thanks!  :hello2: