Dye-able Wood Paste Filler for Lifted Finish.

[s1player]

I was removing the masking tape - after (almost) finishing the dye job on my project guitar.

I was careful and slow with removing the masking - but still lifted some of the dark cordovan dye job off the Alder side of the guitar - exposing underlying wood, slightly tinted wood. The lift spot was about .5" long, maybe one eighth wide, and very shallow. It appears to be only a thin layer of the dye that dryed on the surface and was pulled off - it is not down in to any actual wood.

Tried to get a picture but the camera just wouldn't focus on it.

I think I have 2 options. Since it appears that this was accumulated dye on the surface....

1. "Refill" the void with additional cordovan dye and sand flat. Using a brush - place dye in the lifted finish. Perhaps a couple passes to fill it in.

2. Tint some Wood Paste Filler and carefully fill the lifted finish spot. Try to get a color match and sand off as needed.

I'm inclined to do number 1 - since the finish lift spot appears to be built up dye anyway and it's the easiest. But, I think number 2 might be a "better" repair.

My questions:

1. Which option would you recommend?
2. If number 2 - Tinting some wood paste filler with dye - is there a brand of wood paste filler that is better than others for pre-tinting?


Thought I was done with the job - but I suppose this is further learning.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: BTW - my question sort of begs the question of why a dye finish would "lift" and crack off without taking up wood. I used a super saturated mix of Cordovan Transtint dye - so I am guessing that there was so much color dye that it couldn't absorb and just set on the surface. That's just a guess. Any input on this question would be appreciated - but at this point I am most interested in the repair.

 

[Cagey]

Dye isn't really a surface finish that can be "lifted" off. I suspect there was something on the body before you dyed it, and that's what you've lifted off. If it looks/feels like you could "fill" the spot that's left, that sorta reinforces that idea. Dye doesn't really have a perceptible thickness to it, which also means you won't be able to fill with it.

If your dye seems like it's thick enough to leave a hole upon removal or fill a shallow hole with, we may have a terminology issue keeping us from talking about the same thing.

The dye is just the colorant or tint. Then, you have a "vehicle", which is usually alcohol or water, an increased amount of which is eventually used to thin the product out for application. The vehicle boils off after application, and doesn't form any body. It's just used to distribute the dye.

The dye can also be mixed with a finish, such as urethane, lacquer, oil, etc. At that point, it's not referred to as a dye any more, you speak of the finish. For example, once red dye is mixed into lacquer it would'nt be called red dye, it would be called red lacquer.

I say all that to say this: if you have removed finish, you can generally repair it with more finish. So... are we dealing with finish or dye? If so, what kind?

 

[s1player]

Well, we are dealing with dye on the Alder side. There couldn't have been any other finish on the Alder. The prep on Alder was:

1. Raised Grain.
2. Sanded to 320.
3. 2 Back to Back coats of heavy concentration of Cordovan Transtint dye in Water. Which raised grain again.
4. So, another round of sanding the dyed body to 320.
5. Another coat of Cordovan dye in water on the alder. No perceptible grain raise.

So, I don't think there is any way the alder could have had a remaining treatment left in the wood. I sanded it alot.

And, the other part of the puzzle - I realize dye is not supposed to have a finish "film" or "coat" to it. However, when the masking tape pulled it up - it was very thin and wasn't a piece of wood. Again, my working theory is that my concentration of dye in water was so high (about 5 times their recommended starting point) that it actually left residual on the surface. Thus the layer.

I also talked to the guy shooting the final clear. He said he could fill shallow depressions with layers of clear.

So, I think I am just going to try to get the spot to the same concentration of cordovan as the surrounding area. Then, have any difference in depth handled with clear.

Dye isn't really a surface finish that can be "lifted" off. I suspect there was something on the body before you dyed it, and that's what you've lifted off. If it looks/feels like you could "fill" the spot that's left, that sorta reinforces that idea. Dye doesn't really have a perceptible thickness to it, which also means you won't be able to fill with it.

If your dye seems like it's thick enough to leave a hole upon removal or fill a shallow hole with, we may have a terminology issue keeping us from talking about the same thing.

The dye is just the colorant or tint. Then, you have a "vehicle", which is usually alcohol or water, an increased amount of which is eventually used to thin the product out for application. The vehicle boils off after application, and doesn't form any body. It's just used to distribute the dye.

The dye can also be mixed with a finish, such as urethane, lacquer, oil, etc. At that point, it's not referred to as a dye any more, you speak of the finish. For example, once red dye is mixed into lacquer it would'nt be called red dye, it would be called red lacquer.

I say all that to say this: if you have removed finish, you can generally repair it with more finish. So... are we dealing with finish or dye? If so, what kind?

 

[Cagey]

So, I think I am just going to try to get the spot to the same concentration of cordovan as the surrounding area. Then, have any difference in depth handled with clear.

Sounds like a plan.

I've accidentally gotten back to bare wood before on a stained finish, and luckily I had the foresight to keep some of the stain so I had no problems with color matching. Finish over that, and life is good.