Definitive answer: why not to glue a bolt on design

[swarfrat]

isocyanocrylates do indeed set hard. Even the hardest epoxy is more like really really really firm rubber.  Take a hammer and whack it. Superglue will crack/shatter. Epoxy will dent.  The dent is due to the epoxy absorbing energy.

 

[Cagey]

You shouldn't whack epoxy with a hammer, Johnny! My mother whacked epoxy with a hammer once. ONCE!​

 

[Orpheo]

I know the drawbacks. Don't care. I know the glue-breaking story. Don't care. It's not what I'm asking. I am asking: why is the bolt on design I described so wildly different from a design like, let's say PRS's singlecut guitar neck design? That's what I'm asking and so far, I get zero firm replies.

 

[alterbridgefan]

I'm a little confused, you just want to glue the neck in and leave it? Or are you planning on reshaping the heel perhaps?

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Orpheo's first post in the thread:

I want to know WHY it doesn't work from a structural standpoint.

Answer: For the reasons Cagey gave. It's not a suitable joint for glue (it's a lap joint).

Orpheo's second post in the thread:

The mechanical connection is tight, I know that Blackmore did it with his strats: what's there to stop us from doing it besides logical reasons like removing a neck and such?

Answer: the logical reasons are the reasons. However, glue could probably just about hold, so, yes, you can do it.

Orpheo's third post in the thread:

I just want to know WHY people are so opposed to it.

Answer: as already said, yes you can do it - there's just no good reason to do it when bolt-on necks work very well.

Orpheo's fourth post in the thread:

If the neck pocket joint fit is tight I think it should work to glue it in. Why not?

Answer: haven't we been through this? It's not a very good joint, but it might just about work - however, there's no reason to do it when bolt-on necks work so well.

Orpheo's fifth post in the thread:

I am asking: why is the bolt on design I described so wildly different from a design like, let's say PRS's singlecut guitar neck design? That's what I'm asking

Oh that's what you're asking? That's weird, because it's not what you've said at all so far.

It seems that you don't care if there are drawbacks, or indeed if the neck falls off. You won't be satisfied with any answers until you get the answer you want, so in the interests of stopping going round in circles, here you go (other members, please remember to have a pinch of salt to hand before reading):

There's nothing at all wrong with just putting some glue in the neck pocket, putting the neck in, clamping it up (perhaps using the screws temporarily) and letting the glue do its work. You will then have a completely serviceable set neck guitar.

 

[Cagey]

I know the drawbacks. Don't care. I know the glue-breaking story. Don't care. It's not what I'm asking. I am asking: why is the bolt on design I described so wildly different from a design like, let's say PRS's singlecut guitar neck design? That's what I'm asking and so far, I get zero firm replies. 

I thought we went over this.

The PRS design is not a lap joint; it's a mortise and tenon, so it's mechanically strong.

Even with a tight fit, the bolt-on neck to bolt-on pocket is a lap joint. It's not strong enough and doesn't have enough surface, I don't care what glue you use. The wood itself will fail.

If  that doesn't track for you, then you could try what you propose and report back. It'd answer the question once and for all. Maybe somebody will lay odds...

 

[Ddbltrbl]

Orpheus - Maybe this will help the communications, I hope so anyway! 

This is the neck from a ES-355 kit with a set neck. Notice the slight angles on either side of the neck from the fretboard down to the heel? That is the mortise part of the design. Now notice the extra length (compared to a bolt-on neck) from the heel to the end? That is the tenon. Together they not only give additional mechanical strength from the shape of the mortise and the extra length of the tenon (As Cagey already stated), but it also provides almost twice the gluing surface area on the bottom and between 1.5 & 2  times the gluing surface area on each side of the neck. So, with a good fit and glue job this design distributes all of the stress across much more of the wood. Again as Cagey noted, this kind of joint is designed mechanically so that the wood takes the stress, not the glue.
Is it possible to glue on a bolt-on neck? Yes! But, it is not designed for it and more likely to fail in the long run. And, there is no logical reason I've found that justifies doing it. And, all of the above as a reason for not doing it. Additionally, since the joint is not mechanically designed to make a good glue joint I strongly suspect that you would find the resonance of the joint will be less than either a bolt-on or a well designed set neck. I have no proof that that would ultimately be of any real significance to the sound of the guitar, but my experience and gut tell me it would, at least to my ears.
Again, I hope this helps make it clearer. :dontknow:

 

[Jumble Jumble]

He'll be along in a minute to tell us you still haven't answered his question.

 

[swarfrat]

We haven't within the constraints provided  (which is "I don't care"). If you're going to say "I don't care" to the logical reasons, then by all means knock yourself out.

 

[stubhead]

My boy addresses this question superbly in between 5:20 and 9:10 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjZyrrlYP9g

I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves.
- Jerry Garcia

Hmmm. Not anybody WE would know....

 

[SustainerPlayer]

So ... why not bolt on those glue in/on/around necks ...?  :sign13:

 

[sixstringsamurai]

Seriously surprised this thread still has legs.... :doh:

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Seriously surprised this thread still has legs.... :doh:

We love this shit!​

 

[Ddbltrbl]

Seriously surprised this thread still has legs.... :doh:

We love this shite!​

And all this time I thought I was just having a bad flashback!  :toothy12:
Hey Jerry! You're beautiful man!!  :rock-on: Where ever you are!

 

[swarfrat]

My boy addresses this question superbly in between 5:20 and 9:10 -

Glue and joints might have a lot to do with this recording, but not so much with the guitar  neck/body interface.

 

[Ddbltrbl]

My boy addresses this question superbly in between 5:20 and 9:10 -

Glue and joints might have a lot to do with this recording, but not so much with the guitar  neck/body interface.

:headbang: