Concentric pots audio or linear taper?

[Steve_Karl]

These concentric pots don't say what taper they are.
http://www.warmoth.com/Concentric-Pot-500k-By-CTS-P720C74.aspx

Am I correct to assume that these will work well as both volume and tone in an H-H strat?

I'm planning 2 concentric pots, 2 volumes stacked and 2 tones stacked, and then one single master volume.

I'd like the tone control to be very smooth and flexible, not and immediate cut, and I think I remember that
requires choosing the correct taper for a tone?

And the height of the pot ( dimension ) isn't listed. Will in fit in a rear route strat body?

Of course, if you have other suggestions pointing to an other product that would be great also.
Smooth and minimal effort to turn would be a real perk also, and if not for a concentric,
then at least for the master volume.

If anyone remember these ( see attached ) Allen Bradley Mod Pots ... that's the feel I'd like to get,
but if there's nothing like these around anymore then just normal feel will be ok.
Unfortunately the 2 that I have, left over from a few decades ago are shot ... sealed but scratchy.

Does anyone have any experience with these?
http://www.allparts.com/EP-5086-000-Bourns-500K-Audio-Pot_p_1488.html

Thank you!

 

[Cagey]

The best pots out there right now are these Clarostat parts...

...but they're hard to find. You can get singles from these guys, but they're $13/ea. for the 500K log tapers. They don't carry any concentric versions, and I can't find those units anywhere else.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Thanks Cagey,

Do I want a log taper for volume?
How's the feel when turning them?

 

[Cagey]

Yes. And they're very smooth. Kinda like the Bournes or AB pots. They're also mil-spec parts, so they're sealed and will last a very long time. You will have to use grounding lugs or a grounded plate to ground them, though. The housings are stainless steel, which for all intents and purposes is impossible to solder to. You also have to use set screw knobs, as friction fit knobs won't work.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I have the audio (log) taper concentric pots from Warmoth on a tele I built with Les Paul wiring.  Worked dandy.
Patrick

 

[greywolf]

I've used the bourns on a few projects , very good quality , have a set to install in the next guitar.

As for a taper , I prefer audio taper for volume , witha treble bleed ( small resistor / cap to prevent treble loss with vol reduction)

 

[Steve_Karl]

Thank you Cagey, Patrick and greywolf!

I have all the info. I need to order my pots now.

grey - I'll also look into the treble bleed.

Much appreciated.

S

 

[Steve_Karl]

I've used the bourns on a few projects , very good quality , have a set to install in the next guitar.

As for a taper , I prefer audio taper for volume , witha treble bleed ( small resistor / cap to prevent treble loss with vol reduction)

Greywolf:

Is this the treble bleed that you were thinking of or do you have an other design and possibly a link to a schematic?
http://ashbass.com/ToneWorks/mod50s.html

Thank you!
Steve

 

[bagman67]

STeve Karl -


This is a popular treble bleed mod - bridge the input and output lugs of your volume pot with a .002 muF cap and a 100k resistor in parallel.


http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=treble_bleed


Another is to just bridge the input and output lugs with a .001 muF cap, which is (if memory serves) what Cagey did for me on Quty Pie.  And I like it.


Bagman

 

[Cagey]

Ayup. .001 mikes. Resister doesn't help much in my experience, but that's probably due to the pot sizes and/or pickups I use. Or, maybe I just can't hear it. I know I went about nuts yesterday trying to hear the "Dumble flip" and never did. I wasn't alone, so there's some consolation in that, but it's cold comfort. Kinda like a buncha blind guys agreeing that they can't see something. Doesn't mean it isn't there. Still, I've got damn good hearing and a well-trained ear, so it kinda pisses me off. Maybe it's imaginary. Lord knows those guys spend 10s of thousands of dollars on those amps. I'm sure they hear all sorts of little voices in their heads <grin>

 

[Steve_Karl]

Thanks guys.

I'm dreaming my way to the next one with wiring diagrams.

 

[Dan025]

i've used bourns pots and found them to be noisey. very smooth but the dielectric properties of the plastic seemed to attract static electricity and there was some scratchy/poppyness at the end of the travel as well, this was on 2 pots so it wasn't just a bad one and i soldered them with hemostats on the lugs so heat should not have damaged them but being plastic they are going to be more sensitive to heat. maybe some fabric softener would have helped like bill lawrence suggests for static on the pickguard but i didn't know that trick at the time. they do feel butter smooth however. smoother than anything i've ever used, that's for sure.

the clarostats have been around forever and are high quality military grade stuff. they are stainless and can't be easily soldered to so you MUST use grounding rings, the shafts and bushings are all stainless and they are not quite as smooth as a brass bushing but they do turn very easily without accidental turning being a problem. if you want a good pot that you can solder to, PEC makes pots similar to clarostat without the military specs or stainless construction. they are probably my pot of choice but i may give boures another chance sometime. the clarostats are great but complete overkill.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Hey DanO

I seem to remember that happening to the Allen Bradley's I had a long time ago.
They became noisy for no obvious reason.

Thanks!

 

[Steve_Karl]

Is this an ok method for grounding with a lug? ( Of course the lug would be correctly mounted ... hard to do with a picture )

 

[Cagey]

I seem to remember that happening to the Allen Bradley's I had a long time ago.
They became noisy for no obvious reason.

I'm familiar with the A-B parts, and they're very nice. But, it's mechanical wear. Even milspec parts like the Clarostats are only rated for 25,000 turns, and very few amp/guitar builders use those. Everything else is just puppy chow or worse. You get used to using A-B or Clarostat parts, and you have to laugh when people say CTS, Alpha or Bournes pots are the best. It's like saying Ponderosa makes the best steaks, or McDonald's makes the best hamburgers. Maybe so, in their class. But, not in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Steve_Karl]

The A-Bs I had only lasted a few months before they got noisy so it must have been that static attraction thing
DanO mentioned.
I put the old stock (Gibson LP) ones back in, which were 20 or more yrs old and everything was clean again.

 

[stubhead]

Steel guitarists go homicidal regarding pot quality over this, I think there's probably one post/question about it on the Steel Guitar Forum board at any given time. There's a ton of music played in all styles of music*, but surely the guys getting regularly paid to play are mostly playing in the weepy, syrupy Nashville style. :toothy12: And that requires riding the volume pedal constantly - your foot never comes off it. Something like CTS or Bournes or Alpha can't even be considered, 25,000 rotations is a joke - you can kill a weak pot in a week. OLD Allen Bradly pots are cherished, but the new ones are garbage - though now supposedly they've come out with a increased-life design. Here's a smidgie of discuss:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=241601&highlight=allen+bradley

By far the best solution so far is the 470K pot from Dunlop for use in certain wahs. They're kind of tricky, because of the weird lugs. And they're $28. But, tested out to a million turns... This guy has them: http://www.songwriter.com/bradshaw/potentiometers.php - along with full instructions.

You often see NOS Allen Bradley's up for sale, but you have to know the numbering code to snatch up some logarithmic ones.

I've used concentric pots to wire both my #1 telecaster-shaped guitar and my #2 Mustang-shaped guitar. They work dandy! You have to be really careful that the knobs aren't touching one another, and you'll STILL turn the one you don't want to sometimes, unless you have like spider pinkies. They work dandy! And my next guitar has a one pot-one function motto. If you wire all-concentric 500/500's, then realized you want to try a 300K tone with a .01uf capacitor...  :sad1: you can start bridging resistors over lugs a la
http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/potm.htm
but it may get weird in there.

(Personally I gave up on the damn Claro's and A-B's after I zoinked the 4th one - in 12 years of steel playing - and I bought a Rolls-Roycean Hilton volume pedal, it's like a light beam only he uses infrared, like cash-register scanners. You can bury it with me, and if a grave robber digs me up in 200 years it'll still work. If there is electricity in 200 years. Or people... :laughing7

*http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208507
(if you dare....)

 

[Dan025]

Steel guitarists go homicidal regarding pot quality over this, I think there's probably one post/question about it on the Steel Guitar Forum board at any given time. There's a ton of music played in all styles of music*, but surely the guys getting regularly paid to play are mostly playing in the weepy, syrupy Nashville style. :toothy12: And that requires riding the volume pedal constantly - your foot never comes off it. Something like CTS or Bournes or Alpha can't even be considered, 25,000 rotations is a joke - you can kill a weak pot in a week. OLD Allen Bradly pots are cherished, but the new ones are garbage - though now supposedly they've come out with a increased-life design. Here's a smidgie of discuss:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=241601&highlight=allen+bradley

By far the best solution so far is the 470K pot from Dunlop for use in certain wahs. They're kind of tricky, because of the weird lugs. And they're $28. But, tested out to a million turns... This guy has them: http://www.songwriter.com/bradshaw/potentiometers.php - along with full instructions.

You often see NOS Allen Bradley's up for sale, but you have to know the numbering code to snatch up some logarithmic ones.

I've used concentric pots to wire both my #1 telecaster-shaped guitar and my #2 Mustang-shaped guitar. They work dandy! You have to be really careful that the knobs aren't touching one another, and you'll STILL turn the one you don't want to sometimes, unless you have like spider pinkies. They work dandy! And my next guitar has a one pot-one function motto. If you wire all-concentric 500/500's, then realized you want to try a 300K tone with a .01uf capacitor...  :sad1: you can start bridging resistors over lugs a la
http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/potm.htm
but it may get weird in there.

(Personally I gave up on the damn Claro's and A-B's after I zoinked the 4th one - in 12 years of steel playing - and I bought a Rolls-Roycean Hilton volume pedal, it's like a light beam only he uses infrared, like cash-register scanners. You can bury it with me, and if a grave robber digs me up in 200 years it'll still work. If there is electricity in 200 years. Or people... :laughing7

*http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208507
(if you dare....)

hmmn. i think i could put together an active setup with encoders in place of pots..... anyone interested?

 

[mayfly]

Nah - pots work well enough for me.  I'm bending the strings, but not whipping the pedal.

Interesting information on there though.  A fair number of people really really into what they are into.