Cocobolo/Ebony vs Maple/Rosewood

[Yimi]

Hy there,

I'm currently planning to build a single cut away in the abyss guitar style ( http://www.abyssguitars.com/models/standard_electric/images/standardelectric_NSC.jpg .) I want it to be versatile but with some kind of unique character. The body will most certainly be some kind of mahogany or Limba with a curly maple top, but I'm not quite sure for the neck... From the scraps and bits of info I've gathered from the internet, two options seem suited: Maple/rosewood fingerboard or Cocobolo/Ebony fingerboard. The cocobolo idea came from the PRS Santana and the Driskil guitar Bolero. Since I can't afford the traditional BRW and I saw Cocobolo was suited for guitars I thought why not... But then my little dream was crushed by Ed Roman's web site. He says that except for BRW all rosewoods sound dead because of oil content. As you can see, cocobolo has very conflicting reviews... On the other hand I'm afraid that the maple will have to many highs. Wood texture is also very important; I've read about people saying that the feel of raw rosewood is a bliss when playing. I have also some heard bad reviews about the sticky maple necks. So I'm a bit lost here  :tard:

Here are the pros and cons to set things strate a bit:

Cocobolo/ebony

Pros

Ebony = super fast luxurious feel
Cocobolo = super fast luxurious feel
Nice color
Very stable
No finish required

Cons

Unknown tone
Allergy problems
Hard to glue and work

Maple/Rosewood

Pros

Known tone qualities (in theory. I've never owned a maple neck)
Nice flame figure  :laughing7:
Easy working properties

Cons

Have to apply finish
Therefore can't play raw
Rosewood = Less ware resistant
May be too "shrill" in tone


So here I am, trying to choose the best option. Some advice please?

 

[Mor Paul]

You don't have to listen to Mr. Roman. His opinion (stated as fact) isn't normally considered true here.

 

[Yimi]

Yeah i'm beginning to realize that. I've seen comments saying cocobolo is even BETTER than BRW! Some just say its a pain in the a*s oily dense wood. So yeah, that's why i'm kind of hesitating.

 

[m4rk0]

you will have to get lucky to find a cocobolo neck in the showcase though.. it is not a standard Warmoth wood option.
it is really pretty, but I am fairly sure it is not a lot better than most of the other Exotic wood options. and it may be just as expensive or close to the price of Brazilian rosewood.

either way, it is going to be warmer than maple. if you want an exotic alternative for Maple, go for Pau Ferro

 

[mgaut051]

I've worked cocobolo, it's not that hard to glue. Wipedown with acetone and dry thoroughly just before gluing (used gorilla glue) and it works fine.
Can't beat it for looks. Ever.
Wear a mask too, some ppl develop allergic reactions (not the first time, but apparently it's pretty rough).

 

[line6man]

You don't have to listen to Mr. Roman. His opinion (stated as fact) isn't normally considered true here.

Yeah, I wouldn't take anything Ed Roman says too seriously. :dontknow:

What allergy problems were you referring to with Cocobolo/Ebony?

I know that Cocobolo is supposed to be REALLY bad on your respiratory system when you inhale the dust, but I'm not aware of any allergies to either of those woods.

FWIW, some people are allergic to Pau Ferro wood.

 

[Dan025]

why not go with brazilian rosewood? some pieces look just like cocobolo.
rosewood generally has a very rounded warm sound, that's why people chose it. also many people assume that if a piece of wood sounds dead when you tap on it then the instrument will sound bad. there are apparently some pieces of rosewood that are highly resonant and there is the belief out there that this only happens in brazilian rosewood. that may be true but i dont buy it. there is a little video of paul reed smith talking about brazilian rosewood as the holy grail and he taps on a neck blank and you here it ring pretty well, actually depending on the direction he taps it it rings different notes. it's pretty cool.

the big question is whether a neck that rings make the guitar ring as well? and if brazilian rosewood always shows this property and is it a fact that no other rosewood has this property?

resonating parts can just as easily cancel string vibrations as it can add tonality, is it something we want?

many board members have non brazillian rosewood necks, many bocote and indian rosewood. i have never heard an owner of a rosewood neck brazillian or not complain about the tone. not ever. i would assume that you can safely make a rosewood neck without fear of a dead instrument.

 

[Yimi]

quote]I've worked cocobolo, it's not that hard to glue. Wipedown with acetone and dry thoroughly just before gluing (used gorilla glue) and it works fine.
Can't beat it for looks. Ever.
Wear a mask too, some ppl develop allergic reactions (not the first time, but apparently it's pretty rough).[/quote]
Thanks for the tips. Any advise on tone?

What allergy problems were you referring to with Cocobolo/Ebony?

I meant to say that by choosing this option I would have to deal with the cocobolo being allergenic. 

why not go with brazilian rosewood?

I don't have the dollars  :sad1:

many board members have non brazillian rosewood necks, many bocote and indian rosewood. i have never heard an owner of a rosewood neck brazillian or not complain about the tone. not ever. i would assume that you can safely make a rosewood neck without fear of a dead instrument.

Yeah I was aware of those options (bocote isn't a rosewood by the way, even though it's very close   ) But the shop I was planning to buy from has a better selection of cocobolo. IRW is also available, but in smaller blanks.

 

[Dan025]

many board members have non brazillian rosewood necks, many bocote and indian rosewood. i have never heard an owner of a rosewood neck brazillian or not complain about the tone. not ever. i would assume that you can safely make a rosewood neck without fear of a dead instrument.

Yeah I was aware of those options (bocote isn't a rosewood by the way, even though it's very close   ) But the shop I was planning to buy from has a better selection of cocobolo. IRW is also available, but in smaller blanks.

i wasn't saying not to use cocobolo, mealt saying that other rosewoods sound good in guitars. is it posible that they dont sound quite as good as brazilian? maybe, but if bocote and indian, palisander, and malagasy rosewoods sound good ill bet cocobolo does too.

 

[m4rk0]

why not go with brazilian rosewood?

I don't have the dollars  :sad1:

as I said... if you can find a cocobolo neck in the showcase, it is not going to be much cheaper..

 

[Yimi]

Dan025, it makes sense, but cocobolo is considerably oilier and heavier....

Marko, I am actually planning on building the guitar from scratch. And as raw wood cocobolo is literally 10 times cheaper than BRW (hell, I can even get a full ebony neck for only 60 bucks; while a BRW neck blank costs more than 400)

 

[m4rk0]

that is a totally different story..... go for it!

 

[OzziePete]

Dan025, it makes sense, but cocobolo is considerably oilier and heavier....

Marko, I am actually planning on building the guitar from scratch. And as raw wood cocobolo is literally 10 times cheaper than BRW (hell, I can even get a full ebony neck for only 60 bucks; while a BRW neck blank costs more than 400)

Re: Brazilian Rosewood. That wood is heavily restricted for selling. It's listed under the CITES Treaty & exporting it outside the suppliers own country is prohibited.

What country do you reside in?

If you have a supplier in your locality who says they have Brazilian Rosewood, check with them about the certification of that stock. Very easy for a supplier to say it's Brazilian and charge a premium, or have some inferior Brazilian Rosewood (yes it does exist!) that they'll charge a fortune for, when something less exotic moight sound better.

Re: Cocobolo.

Alembic and a few other manufacturers use it regularly in their guitars and basses. Have you worked with it before?

 

[Yimi]

Re: Brazilian Rosewood. That wood is heavily restricted for selling. It's listed under the CITES Treaty & exporting it outside the suppliers own country is prohibited.

What country do you reside in?

If you have a supplier in your locality who says they have Brazilian Rosewood, check with them about the certification of that stock. Very easy for a supplier to say it's Brazilian and charge a premium, or have some inferior Brazilian Rosewood (yes it does exist!) that they'll charge a fortune for, when something less exotic moight sound better.

I was just giving a price I saw from the web http://www.edroman.com/customshop/wood/main.htm. I wasn't even planning on using BRW on my guitar; I was just comparing.

Re: Cocobolo.

Alembic and a few other manufacturers use it regularly in their guitars and basses. Have you worked with it before?

No, not really...

 

[OzziePete]

You don't have to listen to Mr. Roman. His opinion (stated as fact) isn't normally considered true here.

+100!

Not a fan of his.  :-\

 

[Yimi]

Thanks a lot guys! You convinced me. Just one last question: as I said, I have the possibility to use ebony for the neck. And since the cocobolo is probably flatsawn I was thinking maybe I could do a laminate of cocobolo and ebony. Any thoughts?

 

[Nando Vallart]

Make a laminated of Wenge on the Cocobolo...

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Everything Ed says isn't Bullsh.  He does say bolt-on necks are superior to set necks, for all of the lurking LP owners that won't make the jump to the Warmoth LP.

 

[mgaut051]

Make a laminated of Wenge on the Cocobolo...

Oooh. Plus one that. And again. And then some.

Look up these guys:

http://gilmerwood.com/new_unique.htm

They sometimes post wood porn of this sort:

I'd definitely go for a cocobolo / wenge lam neck - sounds fabulous.

Cocobolo just looks fabulous. Always.

 

[Patrick]

I know that Cocobolo is supposed to be REALLY bad on your respiratory system when you inhale the dust, but I'm not aware of any allergies to either of those woods.

FWIW, some people are allergic to Pau Ferro wood.

isnt wenge dust really bad for you also?
ive heard that it can cause a skin rash like poison ivy does