cleaning satin nitro-finished necks and fretboards

[adrianb]

My new, first Warmoth build is a Strat with a roasted maple neck+fretboard which is also finished in satin nitro.

Is it safe to clean it with pledge?

 

[BeagJon]

Though i don't know the exact cleaner to use, I'd stay away from Pledge. Pledge is meant for woods and you might not actually get any to sink into the wood. Whatever you do use needs to be formulated to not hurt nitrocellulose lacquer.

Dunlop has some products specifically meant for lacquer, might wanna check those out.

 

[Sadie-f]

Martin's instructions are to wipe down nitrocellulose varnished instruments with a clean, damp cloth.

I would definitely not apply furniture polish to a guitar.

 

[Cowbell Fever!]

Pledge is mineral oil and scent, with dryers. Ok for bare wood but will just move stuff around and leave a residue on your lacquer.

 

[BroccoliRob]

i use Boss BGD-01. no alcohol no ammonia no silicone. should be safe for just about anything on a guitar u need 2 clean

this is the Correct Answer.

 

[Rick]

Once a year I'll do a wipe down with naphtha and a paper towel, maybe a toothbrush on the frets, but that doesn't happen anymore, I haven't played a sweaty gig in 20 years, and have had only one in the past two years.  I'm pretty much a homebody now. Then replenish any raw wood with mineral oil.  If necessary.

 

[stratamania]

Pledge, has a whole range of various products for the furniture and household.

No I would not recommend it on a nitro guitar. Get a nitro safe guitar polish or just wipe it down with a clean damp cloth.

 

[adrianb]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I had to do a double take when i read "damp cloth." Really? Won't this seep into the wood eventually? Especially in areas where the satin has worn down to a really dull gloss? (Remind me to never again get satin nitro on a neck.)

 

[Sadie-f]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I had to do a double take when i read "damp cloth." Really? Won't this seep into the wood eventually? Especially in areas where the satin has worn down to a really dull gloss? (Remind me to never again get satin nitro on a neck.)

What matters here is the duration of contact, nitro will let more moisture through than poly, however it's still a tiny amount, compared to bare wood. An acoustic will change moisture content daily, because the interior is bare, unfinished wood. And while good acoustics have an extremely thin nitro finish, a damp cloth is still a correct way to clean them.

I'm  curious that you don't like satin nitro, my Martin neck is satin nitro and where my hand contacts the back most , it has approached a gloss finish which I'm completely fine with. I think the original satin was somewhat nicer in terms of lower friction, but it's not a big difference.

 

[stratamania]

We are meaning a damp cloth rather than a wet cloth. It should be wrung out till there is very little moisture left and used to wipe the nitro, not the wood.

 

[adrianb]

What matters here is the duration of contact, nitro will let more moisture through than poly, however it's still a tiny amount, compared to bare wood. An acoustic will change moisture content daily, because the interior is bare, unfinished wood. And while good acoustics have an extremely thin nitro finish, a damp cloth is still a correct way to clean them.

I'm  curious that you don't like satin nitro, my Martin neck is satin nitro and where my hand contacts the back most , it has approached a gloss finish which I'm completely fine with. I think the original satin was somewhat nicer in terms of lower friction, but it's not a big difference.

Now i'm conflicted. My neck and fretboard are roasted maple. Allowing what tiny moisture to enter the wood defeats the purpose of having it roasted.  ???

As for why i regret the satin nitro, i can see how thin it is to be next to useless. The other day i was wiping the strings down after playing -- not deliberately wiping the fretboard wood, but the soft cotton sock i used would still hit it -- when i saw there were a few flakes of finish on the fretboard. I swiped at it a few times with the cloth, and that wore out a small portion of the finish on the wood.

Initially when i spec'ed out my Warmoth i was trying to replicate the feel of my old Squier Strat, which i thought was satin. Now i'm convinced it's a gloss.

 

[Sadie-f]

Let me dispel that concern, the purpose of roasting is to make the wood more stable, however I don't think I materially affects the moisture-bearing capacity of the wood. Of course roasting will temporarily remove most of the water, however, in time, that will come back to equilibrium with the guitar's environment. That's true whatever the finish is, albeit it will be slower with a heavy coat of poly vs a thin coat of nitro.

You really don't want the alternative, all finishes are fundamentally polymers, and polymers absorb solvents quite readily. Those solvents may not damage a finish, but they will definitely become part of it for a long time.  Nitrocellulose however is quite likely to be damaged by any solvents coming in contact.

I've never heard that warmoth lays down a thin nitro finish. Mostly, I've heard the opposite! If you wanted to match a squier, it was more likely done in satin poly. I don't know if W offers poly in satin.

 

[Cowbell Fever!]

"If you wanted to match a squier, it was more likely done in satin poly. I don't know if W offers poly in satin." Sadie

Also, the majority of PRS guitars ever made.

 

[adrianb]

Let me dispel that concern, the purpose of roasting is to make the wood more stable, however I don't think I materially affects the moisture-bearing capacity of the wood. Of course roasting will temporarily remove most of the water, however, in time, that will come back to equilibrium with the guitar's environment. That's true whatever the finish is, albeit it will be slower with a heavy coat of poly vs a thin coat of nitro.

You really don't want the alternative, all finishes are fundamentally polymers, and polymers absorb solvents quite readily. Those solvents may not damage a finish, but they will definitely become part of it for a long time.  Nitrocellulose however is quite likely to be damaged by any solvents coming in contact.

I've never heard that warmoth lays down a thin nitro finish. Mostly, I've heard the opposite! If you wanted to match a squier, it was more likely done in satin poly. I don't know if W offers poly in satin.

Alright. Thank you for all the info. It will take some mental reconditioning, but i'll get into using a damp cloth to clean my guitars from now on. Full disclosure: for my Squier, i used Pledge and nothing but for all 26 years i've had it. It has a maple neck and board which i now believe to be gloss, likely a poly gloss.

The satin nitro on my Warmoth certainly appears to be thin to me, because merely wiping it with a soft cloth managed to buff a small portion out.

If i may ask a followup question, what would you recommend i use to clean my Ibanez's rosewood board+maple neck? I'm not familiar with how this was finished. I have already used Pledge a few times to clean this and i hope i haven't done anything bad to it. 

 

[adrianb]

Let me dispel that concern, the purpose of roasting is to make the wood more stable, however I don't think I materially affects the moisture-bearing capacity of the wood. Of course roasting will temporarily remove most of the water, however, in time, that will come back to equilibrium with the guitar's environment. That's true whatever the finish is, albeit it will be slower with a heavy coat of poly vs a thin coat of nitro.

I was also wondering something. Isn't the purpose of any hard finish to completely seal wood pores, thereby preventing moisture from being absorbed or exuded?

If a neck or fretboard in a humid location can absorb moisture to be in equilibrium with the environment, can it also give out moisture to be in equilibrium with a dry location?

 

[Sadie-f]

Sealing the pores in the sense of covering them so that e.g. they don't fill with dirt and skin oils would be more my idea of the main purpose of finishes, along with preventing direct contact from damaging the wood fibers. On a guitar without a pick guard, once the finish has worn through, the wood will show damage pretty quickly.  Of course, that's a lot more pronounced in a relatively soft wood like spruce than in an electric guitar with a harder body.

All materials hold some water. I work with stainless steel ultra high vacuum enclosures, the steel holds a lot of water, we bake that equipment at up to 650 deg F to accelerate driving the water (and also hydrogen) out of the steel.

Next, yes, the finish slows moisture, and it does slow it a lot. However, the water content of the wood will change as the humidity does, so yes,.that's both in and out.

I'm sure your Ibanez is fine, glad it wasn't an expensive acoustic ;-). The satin part of the finish may be thin, may Martin neck polished up due to playing within a year, the areas I don't hit as much are still satin.

 

[adrianb]

Sealing the pores in the sense of covering them so that e.g. they don't fill with dirt and skin oils would be more my idea of the main purpose of finishes, along with preventing direct contact from damaging the wood fibers. On a guitar without a pick guard, once the finish has worn through, the wood will show damage pretty quickly.  Of course, that's a lot more pronounced in a relatively soft wood like spruce than in an electric guitar with a harder body.

What about preventing warping and/or twisting? Isn't that also one purpose of finishes?

It's a real tradeoff then: having a thin transparent finish to show off nice woodgrain, but also having it be less durable and easily damaged. Versus solid colors with thick glosses that can sometimes make a guitar look like plastic.

All materials hold some water. I work with stainless steel ultra high vacuum enclosures, the steel holds a lot of water, we bake that equipment at up to 650 deg F to accelerate driving the water (and also hydrogen) out of the steel.

Wow that's amazing. I never knew even steel holds water. Maybe there are materials that are hydrophobic that can somehow be integrated into guitar-making?

Next, yes, the finish slows moisture, and it does slow it a lot. However, the water content of the wood will change as the humidity does, so yes,.that's both in and out.

I'm sure your Ibanez is fine, glad it wasn't an expensive acoustic ;-). The satin part of the finish may be thin, may Martin neck polished up due to playing within a year, the areas I don't hit as much are still satin.

My Warmoth is still new but i'm quickly putting hours into it. Guess it will be a matter of time before it turns to gloss.  :-\

As for my Ibanez, the rosewood board appears to be unfinished. The wood pores are clearly visible. The body itself is also an open-pore satin. I would appreciate it if you could check it out here, there are pics:

https://www.ibanez.com/na/products/detail/rg7421_1p_06.html

What can i use to clean the board and body on this one?

Thank you for all the info and advice so far, Sadie. I'm learning a lot.

 

[stratamania]

The Ibanez linked has a Jatoba board which is a rosewood alternative rather than a rosewood itself. Cleaning would be similar to rosewood.

From the page linked there is a link to manuals, here is the maintenance manual with the info you need.

http://www.hoshinogakki.co.jp/pdf/ibanez/manual/en/eg/maintenance_en.pdf

 

[adrianb]

The Ibanez linked has a Jatoba board which is a rosewood alternative rather than a rosewood itself. Cleaning would be similar to rosewood.

From the page linked there is a link to manuals, here is the maintenance manual with the info you need.

http://www.hoshinogakki.co.jp/pdf/ibanez/manual/en/eg/maintenance_en.pdf

I actually had a paper copy of that, i believe, but it has been misplaced. My particular RG is from 2017; it has a rosewood board and a mahogany body in contrast with the jatoba and meranti on newer production models. The info is straightforward, but i have no idea what the finishes are on my guitar, or if it's finished at all. Is there any way to tell?

Going back to my Warmoth, the body is finished in glossy nitro. Do i also use a damp cloth for that?

 

[adrianb]

Here's also another question that i forgot to ask earlier:

What happens to the finish and wood when using a product like Pledge (the common kind, lemon)?