Can't get neck as straight as I want

[TBurst Std]

Also, the old trick of sighting down the neck to decide whether it's bowed, relieved or twisted is NFG.

+1000

Someone sticky this!

 

[Cagey]

Hmmm, but I ordered a Modern Vintage neck, not Warmoth Pro?? :sad:

Matters not. "Pro" version simply makes things more convenient and gives you the dual-action rod which is more stable. The basic adjustment behaviour is the same - you don't adjust under tension. You also don't adjust very much. Small moves are best.

Yeah I know some relief but I talk about sso straight you barely can see it with your eyes

Unless the neck is very far out of adjustment, you can rarely see bow/relief/twist with your eyes. You need measuring devices, as I mentioned earlier.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Urgh, so much misinformation.

The difference between the double 'pro' design and the regular one is huge. You can set the Pro necks up once, come back to them four years later and they won't have shifted. I've done literally that. A regular neck is going to shift to some degree just from handling it.

Take it from me, as someone who's had the 'joy' of trying to repair many a warped neck, get some strings on the guitar before you try to set the relief. Yes, you do not want to put on really heavy strings and tune to E Standard when doing it, but messing with the truss rod when there's no tension at all—and when you have no clue whether the neck has neough relief or not and are completely guessing—is equally as bad.

I'd also argue that the Pro construction is not more convenient in terms of first set up given how utterly atrociously made the side adjuster is, but that's another topic for another day.

 

[jackthehack]

Urgh, so much misinformation.

The difference between the double 'pro' design and the regular one is huge. You can set the Pro necks up once, come back to them four years later and they won't have shifted. I've done literally that. A regular neck is going to shift to some degree just from handling it.

Take it from me, as someone who's had the 'joy' of trying to repair many a warped neck, get some strings on the guitar before you try to set the relief.

:icon_thumright: +1 on that.

 

[Cagey]

I suspect the reason some have trouble with the Gotoh side adjuster Warmoth uses on the "Pro" series necks is that they're trying to adjust the neck under the tension of a string load. Then, you have to add/subtract the fight of the natural tension of the neck as built trying to keep it at some arc. Finally, you have the friction of the collapsing/expanding wedges that make that adjuster work. The end result is you have to work too hard to make a difference.

In the case of traditional single-acting rods, trying to adjust under pressure can result in you chasing your tail. You're always leaving residual stress in the neck, which later exerts itself more in one direction or the other as temperature/humidity changes, or other stresses such as string gauge changes or just plain ol' man-handling. At that point, a more sensitive player will want to adjust the neck again. Some folks find they have to do it several times a year.

 

[mystique1]

Yep, easy way to check neck relief is with a capo at the 1st fret, hold down the low E string at the fret where the neck meets the body, and at the 8th fret adjust the distance between the fret and the bottom of the string to 0.010". On Fender vintage style necks you have to make the adjustments with the neck off anyway. I have a Warmoth Vintage modern strat neck, and my problem is that with 10-46 strings, the guage I favour, this is achieved with the trussrod almost loose in the neck. As soon as I adjust it and it begins to bite the relief is too great. I have a Fender neck on my Warmoth body at present that doesn't present this problem. Anyone know a fix to this?

 

[Cagey]

I have a Warmoth Vintage modern strat neck, and my problem is that with 10-46 strings, the guage I favour, this is achieved with the trussrod almost loose in the neck. As soon as I adjust it and it begins to bite the relief is too great. I have a Fender neck on my Warmoth body at present that doesn't present this problem. Anyone know a fix to this?

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. "Relief" is where the neck has a concave curve as viewed from the face, and "bow" is where it's convex from the same POV. In other words, "relief" bends forward, while "bow" bends back. You relax the truss rod (counter-clockwise adjustment) to increase relief, while you tighten it (clockwise) to increase bow.

If you're adjusting from loose to where the rod just begins to bite, you're not increasing the relief, you're increasing the bow. Unless there's too much relief in the neck to begin with, this will usually result in the strings starting to buzz or go dead.

The amount of relief needed for a decently set up neck is rarely more than .012", which isn't much. I can get them to within .008" after I've levelled the frets, but that's pushing it. Often, .015" is as good as it gets for factory parts, assuming they came from a good factory. If none of those dimensions work, chances are pretty good the nut and/or bridge aren't set right, the frets are a mess, or there's a neck angle problem.

 

[mystique1]

Yes a concave "bow", of 0.08-0.15" is what I'm talking about. In general guitar speak I always thought convex was a "hump". :icon_smile: My Vintage Modern has relief of 0.010" at the 8th fret, Fenders recommendation, with the truss rod loose in the neck which doesn't make for good tuning as the truss rod is doing nothing. When I adjust the trussrod so it begins to bite, the concave bow, or relief is too great. See my diagram.

I've had the neck for quite a few months now, and have decided it's all but useless.

 

[Cagey]

Yes a concave "bow", of 0.08-0.15" is what I'm talking about. In general guitar speak I always thought convex was a "hump". :icon_smile: My Vintage Modern has relief of 0.010" at the 8th fret, Fenders recommendation, with the truss rod loose in the neck which doesn't make for good tuning as the truss rod is doing nothing. When I adjust the trussrod so it begins to bite, the concave bow, or relief is too great. See my diagram.

I've had the neck for quite a few months now, and have decided it's all but useless.

Usually, when talking about a "hump", we're talking about an irregular profile to the overall length. Sometimes, the truss rod won't correct evenly over the length of the neck due to variations in the wood grain, so you end up with a high spot starting a little way past the 12th-15th fret and dropping back down past that. No amount of adjustment will correct it; the neck needs to be de-fretted and corrected, then re-fretted. If it's not severe, sometimes you can correct it on the frets themselves with some judicious grinding, but you'll end up with some inconsistent fret heights.

While we're on the subject, the truss rod doesn't uniformly bow or relieve the neck, which is why you sometimes hear about "fall away", where the frets past the 15th fret or so are ground an extra couple thousands to compensate for their lack of movement.

Other than that, convex is "bow", and concave is "relief". I know - not good terms - but whaddaya gonna do? In any event, tightening increases bow. If tightening your neck is increasing relief, there's something seriously wrong. Unheard of, really.

Is it a Maple neck? Because for as hard and brittle as that stuff is, it can be surprisingly squirrelly.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Other than that, convex is "bow", and concave is "relief". I know - not good terms - but whaddaya gonna do?

In all my years and of all the many, many techs and luthiers I've conversed with, I've never heard anybody else use the terms this way around. "Relief" is the correct amount of bowing. "Bow" is excessively concave. A convex curve has been, in my experience, referred to primarily as a "humped" neck.

And re: previous comments: no, the problems with the 'Pro' side adjustment is not a lack of understanding or improper use. It is simply a much looser, less effective method of shifting the rod tension. It's putting unnecessary parts steps between you and the rod and the rate at which adjustments are made changes as you get closer to the extremes. Adjusting at the headstock—simply and directly, with a consistent rate of adjustment—is by far a more effective method.

 

[mystique1]

Other than that, convex is "bow", and concave is "relief". I know - not good terms - but whaddaya gonna do?

In all my years and of all the many, many techs and luthiers I've conversed with, I've never heard anybody else use the terms this way around. "Relief" is the correct amount of bowing. "Bow" is excessively concave. A convex curve has been, in my experience, referred to primarily as a "humped" neck.

That's what I thought too! :dontknow:

 

[Ribeye]

I can't take it anymore!

All are correct:
Concave=upbow, relief, bow, etc.
Convex=backbow, hump, etc.
Dead straight=dead straight.

Terms vary regionally and further abroad.  The important thing to do is verify you're speaking the same language. Comprende?

Where y'all from?

 

[Cagey]

Funny - I was just going to make the same point; it may be a regional thing. Like - is it pop or soda?

 

[SustainerPlayer]

Is that a metric or imperial convex?  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Jumble Jumble]

So, this curve here: is it concave or convex?    (

 

[Ace Flibble]

Because that message was written to be read left-to-right, concave.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I really have no use for the side-adjust.
Just give me a standard top-adjust truss rod and I'm good to go.

 

[Cagey]

I really have no use for the side-adjust. 

I doubt many people do. The dual-acting truss rod makes for a surprisingly stable neck, so the need to adjust is all but gone. Access convenience means nothing if you don't need access.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I really have no use for the side-adjust. 

I doubt many people do. The dual-acting truss rod makes for a surprisingly stable neck, so the need to adjust is all but gone. Access convenience means nothing if you don't need access.

Yes, but it's really no more access-convenient than a top-adjust. 

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Top adjust is fine for me, and I live in a temperate climate so there's very little adjustment to be done, if any. Makes the neck lighter and also I just prefer not to have the side adjust there - sometimes I feel it when playing.