Can you improve a Warmoth finish afterwards?

[Fred_Buzz]

So my custom Tele came in this week (thank you Warmoth for getting it done ahead of schedule). It's beautiful and I like it but the quilted top turned out entirely different from the way the raw Unique choice sample and predicted finish looked during the order process. At one point, I wasn't sure it was even the same piece of maple (it is, Spike confirmed it). The more I look at the preorder predicted finish versus what I have the more I wish it looked like the preorder. A good amount of the maple grain was lost in the jungle burst. The "reptilian" top I'd hoped for looks more like a Gibson quilt (which is very nice don't get me wrong).

Long winded, sorry.

Is there anyway the finish could be improved such that it looks more like the preorder than it does now short of sanding it all down and redoing it?
Will the grain in the top coat become more or less visible as the guitar ages?
Will the clear coat yellow with UV exposure? Could I increase the yellow and fade the green a little if the body saw a lot of sunlight?

Here is pictures of the body and the digital example from the original order.

 

[bagman67]

Not a Warmoth employee  here, but given each piece of wood is unique and will respond differently to dyes, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a perfect match.  One way of more closely approaching the mockup, thought, might be for the web builder to capture the image of the mockup and provide that along with the other specs on the custom build to the paint crew.

 

[Fred_Buzz]

Not a Warmoth employee  here, but given each piece of wood is unique and will respond differently to dyes, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a perfect match.  One way of more closely approaching the mockup, thought, might be for the web builder to capture the image of the mockup and provide that along with the other specs on the custom build to the paint crew.

That's not the intent of the thread. I'm looking forward.

Is there a way to expose the body such that the grain is more noticeable and the color is more yellow without sanding it all down and trying again?

 

[bagman67]

You know what, I did a really crap job of reading your post.  I apologize.

The poly coat that Warmoth uses is pretty tough, and wears very well and remains water-clear.  Which in the abstract is a good thing, right?  But it also means the answer to your question is likely "no, there's not much that can be done to change what you have short of stripping it, possibly bleaching the wood to undo the effect of the rich green dye, and refinishing."

 

[dmraco]

I believe there is not much you can do short of refinishing it completely, unless you want it darker.  The computer predictions are just that, predictions.  And when going with a color like that, it can vary greatly.

It the actual body is the one on the left...I think it looks 1000x better than the model.  But that is just my opinion, its not my guitar.

 

[Logrinn]

Don't forget that the chatoyance effect makes the pattern look different depending on how you look at it. Also the color of something changes depending on the type of lighting used. So an image of a beautiful guitar top is like a static 2D version of the real thing. When looking at a top IRL the pattern always changes depending on how you look at it or move it. That is what I love the most about it.

I remember back in the day when I worked in a music store and we got some new guitars from the retailer (Yamaha's?) that were surprisingly cheap and had pronounced flame maple tops. But looking at them, you soon realised that there was something wrong with them. They didn't "move" when you looked at them from different angles. It turned out these were so called "photo flamed tops". An image of a flamed top was used as a fake top under the finish.

What I'm trying to say is that you could probably take three, four different pictures of that gorgeous body - moving the camera slightly and/or changing the light slightly - and every picture would look different.

 

[aarontunes]

Q: Is there anyway the finish could be improved such that it looks more like the preorder than it does now short of sanding it all down and redoing it?
A: No, and even redoing it won't necessarily get you closer to the computer simulation.

Q: Will the grain in the top coat become more or less visible as the guitar ages?
A: I will tell you in 20 years. My guess now is that in 20 years it will look pretty much the same....but you never know.

Q: Will the clear coat yellow with UV exposure? Could I increase the yellow and fade the green a little if the body saw a lot of sunlight?
A: Probably not. But who knows? Maybe you could get it a little yellower, but not in any predictable or controllable kind of way. Letting your body bake in the sun seems it would do more harm than good. Guitar body, that is. But same goes for your body body.

Color is one of the most maddening things we deal with here. It consumes a lot of our effort.

First off, every monitor on every device is going to be different. Nothing can be done about that.

Then, as Logrinn already mentioned, the colors in any given photograph can vary wildly depending on the environment, lighting, etc. I bet if I tried I could take a photo of the real body that would match the builder rendering pretty well, by manipulating the lighting, angle, etc.

Lastly, every piece of wood is different. The exact same colors, applied in exactly the same way, can look very different from one piece of wood to another....even among the same species...even from the same tree. It's not an exact science. It's not stamping out metal parts and painting them all black. Wood is organic material, with tons of color, texture, and grain variations that can't be accounted for.

Corollary note: The new website we are working on has a much improved paint and finish page, and has a cool little app where you can see examples of every color of paint, applied to many different woods, in both gloss and satin. For example, you could look up examples of what Transparent Red looks like over Alder, Ash, Mahogany, Maple, and Black Korina...in satin. It's pretty educational to see actual examples of the same color applied over different woods, and how much it can vary. Of course, it won't account for all the random variances as mentioned above, but it's at least a step closer.

 

[aarontunes]

You know what, I did a really crap job of reading your post.  I apologize.

That, my friends, is how you deliver an apology.  :icon_thumright:


I really need to get better at that. If only I had more opportunities...

 

[Fred_Buzz]

You know what, I did a really crap job of reading your post.  I apologize.

That, my friends, is how you deliver an apology.  :icon_thumright:


I really need to get better at that. If only I had more opportunities...

This isn't a complaint thread. It's truly a BEAUTIFUL guitar body (that arrived 3 weeks ahead of schedule because Warmoth rocks). Some of the materials I work with in prosthetics can be altered aesthetically post cure, so I wondered if there was anything I could do (within reason) to make it even more awesome and a bit more Reptile looking.

Thank you everyone for the insights and replies.

 

[aarontunes]

This isn't a complaint thread. It's truly a BEAUTIFUL guitar body (that arrived 3 weeks ahead of schedule because Warmoth rocks). Some of the materials I work with in prosthetics can be altered aesthetically post cure, so I wondered if there was anything I could do (within reason) to make it even more awesome and a bit more Reptile looking.

Thank you everyone for the insights and replies.

I know you weren't really complaining...just asking for info. My comment about apologies wasn't directed at you in any way.  ccasion14:


I was just pointing out that it was refreshing to see someone simply apologize, with no mealy-mouthed weasel-words, or vague blame-deflecting language.


I still really haven't forgiven Bagman67 for characterizing my blog post about hiding guitars from your wife as merely "funnyish", but he did get this right.


And by the way....that guitar body is beautiful!!

 

[rgand]

I also like both examples, perhaps actual one over the order sample by a bit. I think the sample on the right looks more reptilian due to the more pronounced grain pattern. It makes it look more like rows of scales. All that said, you're going to have a beauty when you're done.

 

[stratamania]

Not much to add at all.

Personally I prefer the actual body versus the representation. Perhaps let the idea of the representation fade and start to get familiar with the instrument in different lights and who knows it may grow on you. (Hopefully not like an actual jungle).

 

[timezon3]

Count me as another that prefers the actual piece, but I can see where OP is coming from.  In the render, the vertical grain lines are more pronounced, resulting in a kind of "scaly" effect.  In the actual piece, the quilt is much more pronounced (usually desirable), overpowering the vertical grain lines, and losing the "scaly" effect that it sounds like OP was looking for.

Unfortunately, I also doubt there's anything that can be done at this point.

TZ

 

[Fred_Buzz]

Count me as another that prefers the actual piece, but I can see where OP is coming from.  In the render, the vertical grain lines are more pronounced, resulting in a kind of "scaly" effect.  In the actual piece, the quilt is much more pronounced (usually desirable), overpowering the vertical grain lines, and losing the "scaly" effect that it sounds like OP was looking for.

Unfortunately, I also doubt there's anything that can be done at this point.

TZ

Spike emailed me back. He said:
"The top will yellow to some extent over time but, each is a snowflake and unique
in its own right. And yes, the dimensionality of figured woods does tend to enhance over time."

It is beautful. It's killing me that I haven't had the time to finish putting it together yet.

[youtube]wyMBK9Obt44[/youtube]

 

[Kostas]

...And yes, the dimensionality of figured woods does tend to enhance over time..."

I don't think mine can be more 3D, it's washed black and I can see shades of black, grey, cream and sonic blue in it! Moving the body slightly the quilt looks like moving clouds, if that's not 3D I don't know what it is...



Warmoth finishes are beautiful but you either like it or not, give it time to decide and be sure before you start putting pickups & hardware. Personally I like what I see in the clip and judging from mine I know it's more 3D when you see it from close.

 

[Logrinn]

Damn, that's cool!

 

[Fred_Buzz]

I think the quilt is continuing to become more and more visible. I'd swear it's gotten better looking every single day since I posted this thread.

Many thanks to Warmoth for such great work  :yourock:  and to members here for your patience and knowledge.  :rock-on:

 

[stratamania]

Glad it is growing on you. Glad to help in some small way...

 

[Sovereign_13]

Is it just me or does the finish seem to have gained more of a yellowish coloring in the middle?  The initial picture I thought looked pretty thoroughly green, but now it looks much more like the Warmoth showcase picture you posted, color-wise.

Maybe it's just the lighting?  :icon_scratch:  Stunning, either way.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Fred_Buzz]

Is it just me or does the finish seem to have gained more of a yellowish coloring in the middle?  The initial picture I thought looked pretty thoroughly green, but now it looks much more like the Warmoth showcase picture you posted, color-wise.

Maybe it's just the lighting?  :icon_scratch:  Stunning, either way.  :icon_thumright:

It certainly seems to be changing color (and increasing the details in the wood) to me as well. Everyday it seems to get better looking. More importantly it's so much fun to play. This morning I tried to play my '16 USA Gibson Midtown Deluxe and as nice (and expensive) as the Gibson is, I immediately found myself wishing it was my Warmoth. Gibson's neck finish just doesn't compare and the SD pups in my Warmoth just crush the burst buckers head to head.