Building a 12-string--possible neck dive issues?

[Hanover Fiste]

I'm wanting to build a 12-string, using a chambered Jazzmaster body with a maple core and a padauk top.

The neck will be either maple or padauk, with a canary fretboard. It will be the one with the straight headstock.

Since the body will be chambered, and the neck having twice as many tuners, should I be concerned about neck dive? Should I go with a solid Jazzmaster body instead? I was thinking about that, but I don't want the body to be too heavy. Anything around 4 pounds would be OK.

I have attached a picture of the body and neck to be made.

 

[mrpinter]

Generally speaking, to avoid neck dive you want the upper horn (where the strap button is) to be over the 12th fret or longer. This body doesn't look like that will be the case, so you can probably expect the headstock to want to head towards the floor. If you want to stick with that body I'd for sure get the solid version - if available. And you'd still probably have some neck dive, just not as pronounced.

 

[Hanover Fiste]

Thanx for the quick reply. However, I would think body weight would be part of the equation as well. The upper strap button on Les Pauls are at the 16th fret, yet they don't suffer from neck dive; at least none of the dozen or so I've had did. Gibson Explorers and similar guitars have their upper strap button almost at the last fret, yet they don't have any diving issues that I know of (my 2 Explorers didn't).

From my research, the Jazzmaster body is larger and heavier than a Strat body; thus the reason I prefer the Jazz body for this build.

 

[supertruper1988]

I have a chambered jazzmaster in basswood with a maple top. It has heavy locking tuners and Floyd nut on a larger headstock. No neck dive here. I would worry about it.

 

[NovasScootYa]

It does not appear to be a tank, check solid body weight difference - may not be that great and saves money. How secure the strap is attached is a concern...let the ordering begin.

 

[Mincer]

Every electric 12 string I've ever played has terrible balance issues, except one..the Steinberger 12 string solved this problem being headless and with an innovative tailpiece.

 

[aarontunes]

Generally speaking, to avoid neck dive you want the upper horn (where the strap button is) to be over the 12th fret or longer.

Yes, this.

Thanx for the quick reply. However, I would think body weight would be part of the equation as well. The upper strap button on Les Pauls are at the 16th fret, yet they don't suffer from neck dive; at least none of the dozen or so I've had did. Gibson Explorers and similar guitars have their upper strap button almost at the last fret, yet they don't have any diving issues that I know of (my 2 Explorers didn't).

It's not about weight. It's about weight distribution in relation to the balance-points where the strap buttons are located. LP and Explorer designs have an unusual amount of weight behind the bridge. So much so, in fact, that they often are "body heavy", causing the neck to "dive" upwards when played seated.

Most Fender designs aren't like that.

For example, compare an LP to a Tele. Similar single-cut body styles. LP's balance well, but Tele's can sometimes be just a bit neck-heavy because they don't have all that weight distributed behind the bridge.

As far as the question at hand, Jazzmasters are probably the Fender design with the most weight behind the bridge, but you are removing 25% of that weight by chambering it and then putting six extra tuner's worth of weight at the extreme opposite end.

So, in short, who knows? To determine this answer you'll likely have to build one and see.

Welcome to R&D, baby!

 

[aarontunes]

Oh...also: here's an article I wrote for the Warmoth blog a while back that offers some insight on neck dive.

 

[teleme01]

One thing I noticed was maple core, chambered will still be over 4 lbs

 

[Don O]

A good 3 inch wide padded strap will also help. The Well Hung brand on Reverb are outstanding straps.
This is my WH collection from a few years ago. I’ve added 3 since then.

 

[mrpinter]

Thanx for the quick reply. However, I would think body weight would be part of the equation as well. The upper strap button on Les Pauls are at the 16th fret, yet they don't suffer from neck dive; at least none of the dozen or so I've had did. Gibson Explorers and similar guitars have their upper strap button almost at the last fret, yet they don't have any diving issues that I know of (my 2 Explorers didn't).

From my research, the Jazzmaster body is larger and heavier than a Strat body; thus the reason I prefer the Jazz body for this build.

Yes, body weight is part of the equation, which is why I said I'd go with a solid body rather than chambered.

 

[NutBehindTheGuitar]

So the neck dives because it is able to pull the guitar strap down after it. The guitar strap is held in place by the friction between the strap and your clothes. Increase that friction and the force opposing the diving neck is increased. Get a wider strap as Don, says or / and make your 12 string strap more "frictioneny" sow some corduroy fabric or any fabric that doesn't glide smoothly over other fabric, on the back of your guitar strap and that should increase it's holding power.
Bye for now