Blue Analine on Swamp Ash help with blotches

[dmclean1]

This is my 1st post and my first try at this. Here is a pic of the body so far. I have the 1st coat of water based blue analine dye and it is blotchy. I am not sure what I missed or did wrong but if someone out there can help a newbie out, it wouid be appreciated. Here is what I have done up to now.

-Sanded with 220 then 320.
-Wiped down with damp rag let dry overnight and sanded with 320. I did this 3 times.
-wiped it all down with acetone.
-I prepped the dye 7.1 grams to 250 ml distilled water (I'm on a well)
-applied the dye with a microfiber cloth and let it dry and this is the result.

I don't know if I should sand it down again and apply more dye or just keep going with the dye as is and hope it blends out. I got the color I wanted on a test piece of white ash with 3 coats.

The plan is to get the color right, seal with dewaxed shellac, grain fill either with timbermate natural dyed very dark blue, or use z-poxy. black sand and finish with waterborne lacquer.

I may have bitten off more than I can chew for a first go.

 

[bagman67]

In my experience, you get better results if you get the surface good and wet and then start applying dye.  That makes it flow better, and helps avoid those rag-marks (which is what your blotches look like to me).  Good luck.


Bagman

 

[bbl4ck]

In my experience, you get better results if you get the surface good and wet and then start applying dye.  That makes it flow better, and helps avoid those rag-marks (which is what your blotches look like to me).  Good luck.


Bagman

I think Bagman hit it on the head about the cause of those rag-marks or blotches. 
Check out this video of a nuclear burst with water based dyes.  I realize you are not doing a burst, but he talks a lot about how to avoid those blotches that occur frequently using water based dyes.  Looks good though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeERvZ8ca3o

:rock-on:

 

[dmclean1]

Thanks Guys, That video was a big help. I was being really gentle so I'll wipe on some more tomorrow and be a little more aggressive and see what happens. I forgot to mention that I did wipe the body down with a damp cloth before putting on the dye. Maybe it wasn't wet enough.

Thanks again.

Doug

 

[Cagey]

Being more aggressive isn't going to help. The wood is absorbing too fast, so the first touch of the applicator is going to release more dye than you want it to. Makes it blotchy. That's the purpose behind wetting the wood before you apply the dye, as Bagman suggested. If the wood isn't so thirsty, you have time to move the dye around and even out the application.

It's not too late or too difficult to do this: sand it back a bit to even it out, then seal it, then grain fill it, then stain it, then clearcoat it. It'll be beautiful.

 

[dmclean1]

Well I started to sand it out and found out that I probably didn't sand enough the first time. Sanding with the color in the wood showed some high and low spots that you can't see when you sand the bare wood. I went back to 220 grit and was hoping to get another coat of dye on but I ran out of light (the sun went down). I will try and finish the sanding tomorrow and see if I can get another coat of dye on the next day. I don't have a huge amount of time with light outdoors in the evening but it's getting better. If it works I'll put up another pic.

 

[Cagey]

Ever see "Groundhog Day"?

Before you put any more stain on there, you really should seal it or you're going to get the dreaded splotchiness again. You can use a regular sealer, or if that's not easy to get you can just put a wash coat of the final finish on.

 

[dmclean1]

Hi Cagey,

I was under the impression that water-based dye wouldn't penetrate sealed wood. Am I mistaken?

I was going to seal with de-waxed shellac after the dye. Build it up with shellac, then grain fill so when I sand the filler I don't go into the dye. Then finish with waterborne lacquer.

Does this sound right?

 

[Cagey]

Sorry; I left out the filling part, but even with that I'm a little off.

Here's a finishing schedule that works well. Also, you may want to read this article.

If you're going to use water-based dye/stain, you may want to wet the surface before you apply it.

 

[dmclean1]

Thanks again for the links. The nitro article was, well BIG. I tried nitrocellulose at first on some test pieces and the vapors were a little too much in the house. I gotta say that when everyone says it's nasty stuff, believe it. I don't have a place that is ventilated enough so I decided to try the Mohawk Lacquer. 

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=769

Its not quite as shiny but the test piece I tried it on looked good. My test pieces were not real big so going from a small test piece to the body was (is) a big learning experience. I figure if I really screw up, I'll just go with a solid color.

I'll post some more progress pics as I get to them.

 

[stubhead]

It can be time-consuming to goof 'em, but you're lucky in that you've chosen materials that can and have been made to work right, and they're just about impossible to do something tragic & destructive. Sanding is pretty boring, and if you just want to bust it back to the virgin starting point plain ol' bleach will instantly auto-rewind you back to zero. Of course you have to be good about then getting the bleach off... multiple light wipedowns, don't pitch it in the bathtub, and of course let it dry really good too.

Finger pressure is really erratic. And swamp ash is nearly mountainous in it's texture. The big decision is: Do you want it perfectly flat or do you want it "woody" and, well, swamp ashy? Both approaches are valid, you might wanna search "barn door" here on this forum and wallow about in it for a while.

Are you using a perfectly flat sanding block for the large flats, and being equally respectful of the contours, flats and curves? There are some odd-shaped, semi-firm spongy sanding "blocks" around, but I just use pieces of mousepads, some kind of rubber sheeting...  You really want to think about the surfaces and what you're trying do to it, rather than letting the rag explore around and tell you what it wants to do. Hah! And Ebay is littered with the corpses of that approach to routers too.  :sad1: