Bigsby: Tuning stability and range

[B3Guy]

Hi, all! seeing as I've never picked up a guitar with a Bigsby of any kind on it, I have been wondering how stable these trems are. They have an impressive and iconic visual presence, but how well do they hold tuning, and approximately what kind of bend range do they have? Thanks!

 

[Cagey]

They are sexy and iconic, but they're not very repeatable, and they have a very limited range. If all you want to do is add a bit of vibrato here and there, rather than do the wild gyrations of EVH/SRV/JMH/Ritchie Blackmore, they're ok.

 

[B3Guy]

no, I'm not much of a trem user. I just want one there to add a bit of warble/shimmer every once in a while. If I want to bend a note, I use my fingers.

But they do have repeatability issues? How bad?

 

[Cagey]

no, I'm not much of a trem user. I just want one there to add a bit of warble/shimmer every once in a while. If I want to bend a note, I use my fingers.

But they do have repeatability issues? How bad?

You sound like someone who could be satisfied with one, at least as far as its original design intent.

The non-repeatability thing is mainly due to the single spring design and the large amount of contact on the pivot points. Even with ball bearings, there's a lot of surface area at those points which adds a small amount of friction. That's why Floyd Rose came up with the knife-edge fulcrum as a pivot point on his design. If you're religious about keeping the bearings clean and lubricated, you can mitigate that bit to where it's not as much an issue, but almost nobody does that level of maintenance on the things. Then, there's a couple other bars involved that do the actual bending and guiding, at least one of which also has bearings. More friction. Bad news.

Finally, a single spring is a common point of failure. Any temperature change, work hardening, change in load, etc. is going to affect how it responds. That's why Leo used five springs on his vibrato design. They work in concert, and their tension is an average, which is easier to maintain. It's common knowledge that Leo wasn't one to spend money needlessly on his designs. If something wasn't necessary, it certainly wasn't part of the design. You'll notice nearly everybody uses that scheme now, while almost nobody uses the single spring idea. The Bigsby is a very old design, from back when very few guitars even had vibrato bridges. A lot has been learned since then. The only thing the Bigsby has going for it is it looks iconic, and sorta sexy. But, that's not a good reason to include it in your guitar's mechanicals. Leave the sexy work to the body/headstock/paint designs. The rest of it needs to be practical.

 

[B3Guy]

yeah, I'll have to think about it. I was imagining one on a Firebird. They have so much real-estate on that end of the guitar, it just seemed like a bridge that would look really good there. Floyds are the only other trem I know with a similar presence on the guitar, but I find them more than a bit obnoxious, and in my mind unnecessarily complex to adjust.

But back to the Bigsby . . . flat-mounted Bigsbys are used in conjunction with a TOM bridge, correct? would a roller-saddle TOM improve things?

 

[bagman67]

But back to the Bigsby . . . flat-mounted Bigsbys are used in conjunction with a TOM bridge, correct? would a roller-saddle TOM improve things?

The only way to go, if you ask me.

 

[Cagey]

But back to the Bigsby . . . flat-mounted Bigsbys are used in conjunction with a TOM bridge, correct? would a roller-saddle TOM improve things?

It is as Bagman says - the only way to go, if you must use either of those designs. Knife edge saddles like you find on a standard TOM are not conducive to moving strings. You'll get hang-ups all day long, and as soon as you correct your tuning, the damn thing will flip back out as the string bumps over a wrap and can't bump back. On the strings that don't have wraps, you'll put a kink in them, so they want to return to the kink instead of the tension they started at. So, yeah. Rollers.

Actually, if all that spare real estate bothers you, think up an inlay or some other sort of decorative thing you could put back there. That way you can use a modern bridge that won't give you fits.

 

[stubhead]

Well, if you're familiar with Brian Setzer, he uses it as much as anyone. I don't have a guitar with one around anymore, but if I remember right you can get about a whole tone drop on the low E string (2 frets worth) and just a little bit on the high E. I've never heard anyone us it to do anything other than just shimmer chords. But they sure are on some famous guitars.

 

[B3Guy]

But back to the Bigsby . . . flat-mounted Bigsbys are used in conjunction with a TOM bridge, correct? would a roller-saddle TOM improve things?

It is as Bagman says - the only way to go, if you must use either of those designs. Knife edge saddles like you find on a standard TOM are not conducive to moving strings. You'll get hang-ups all day long, and as soon as you correct your tuning, the damn thing will flip back out as the string bumps over a wrap and can't bump back. On the strings that don't have wraps, you'll put a kink in them, so they want to return to the kink instead of the tension they started at. So, yeah. Rollers.

Actually, if all that spare real estate bothers you, think up an inlay or some other sort of decorative thing you could put back there. That way you can use a modern bridge that won't give you fits.

Yeah, from all I read, the Wilky is pretty unbeatable, especially with the recessed route, but IMO it looks like Bantha Fodder on a vintage guitar, pure and simple. The VG wilky is marginally better, but only on a strat. The Firebird needs presence there, thats for sure, so either a TOM or the Bigsby. I've thought about a wilky on there along with some tramp-stamp filigree, but it just don't float my boat, if you know what I mean. Perhaps the Firebird in my mind is doomed to be a hardtail.

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, I've never been too impressed with filigrees and such on a guitar, either. I like a fancy wood or finish or both, but past that, you can keep it. But, you could do something a little more understated. Perhaps something as simple as a trapezoidal metal plate of some sort, just to eat up space. I'm sure Dangerous could come up with something that didn't look gaudy.

 

[B3Guy]

Perhaps something to this effect would look okay. But gosh, I wish the Wilkinson came in shiny finishes. Those fools. Maybe I could get one chromed or nickel-plated by a third party . . . hmm . . .

 

[bbl4ck]

yeah, I'll have to think about it. I was imagining one on a Firebird. They have so much real-estate on that end of the guitar, it just seemed like a bridge that would look really good there. Floyds are the only other trem I know with a similar presence on the guitar, but I find them more than a bit obnoxious, and in my mind unnecessarily complex to adjust.

But back to the Bigsby . . . flat-mounted Bigsbys are used in conjunction with a TOM bridge, correct? would a roller-saddle TOM improve things?

I have a Bigsby on my Warmoth V and I really love it.  I too do not do a lot of wacky stuff, so it fits me just fine.
Also, a roller bridge is required for a Bigsby!  I wouldn't try anything else. 
Here is the link to my V with a Bigby http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=10556.0
Good luck &  :rock-on:

 

[B3Guy]

ha. you've got a shortage of real-estate, but you still went with the Bigsby  ccasion14: I've been trying to think of some clever reason (functional, that is) to have a big metal plate there. pick holder? tuner? a hidden door with extra knobs and switches underneath? the possibilities are endless  :laughing7: