So I have a bit of an issue I'm dealing with. I have this desire to be a luthier. I really want to be a custom builder. I kind of feel like I'm in limbo. I have never built a guitar from "scratch". Only parts guitars and some finishing work. I do thet best work I can with my supplies, workspace, and finances. The work comes out good. I have sold a few pieces and even done custom orders. Lately I don't get that sense of pride and accomplishment when I finish a project. I see peoples guitars and I'm kind of jaded. Especially with the strats and teles in traditional colors. The exotic stuff is cool but I think just because it's not alder ya know. I was in another forum and this guy was going off about how Warmoth builders were a joke and that they took themselves way too seriously. He was going on and on about the guys on the forum being arrogant and thinking they were better than anybody else because they spend $700 on a body and $500 on a neck. He said that once our guitars were done they weren't worth half of what we payed to build them. This made me mad but the thing that was worst of all was that he compared us to Asian kids in the sweat shops. He said they can put guitars together too. I was mad but it kind of got me thinking. Anyway I would like to hear some thoughts. Mostly on what I'm going through but I know people will have something to say about the other stuff too.
Being a builder
- Thread starter pabloman
- Start date
Well, that guy is just stating his opinion and not backing it up with any hard data, so it has no validity; Making what ever he said just and opinion and no one has to listen to him. Warmoth is a great company and there craftsmen is top notch, the guitars that people put together are gems to themselves because they are able to own THEIR guitar not another companies guitar.
sounds like his entire opinion is based off of resale value. i definitely don't think resale value makes one guitar better than another. especially when the guitar with no resale value is exactly what you want it to be, while the guitar with decent resale value was made up by a bunch of guys sitting around a desk trying to decide what the kids want their guitars to look like.
and i don't get the sweatshop reference he made. is he saying it's better to buy a guitar a bunch of kids made in a 3rd world country? look up "cort guitar factory" on youtube. it's pretty terrible. and those aren't even kids.
and about warmoth builders being arrogant... obviously i'm biased since i've built 2 already, but i think warmoth builders are pretty well educated about their instruments. a friend of mine has a pretty big collection of guitars including a nice les paul and a PRS and he couldn't do much more than change his own strings. i'm pretty damn proud of the fact that i've taught myself how to do set ups. being self reliant is great. i don't care how much you spend for parts, any parts-o-caster builder will know more than your average pull-a-guitar-off-the-wall player.
and i don't get the sweatshop reference he made. is he saying it's better to buy a guitar a bunch of kids made in a 3rd world country? look up "cort guitar factory" on youtube. it's pretty terrible. and those aren't even kids.
and about warmoth builders being arrogant... obviously i'm biased since i've built 2 already, but i think warmoth builders are pretty well educated about their instruments. a friend of mine has a pretty big collection of guitars including a nice les paul and a PRS and he couldn't do much more than change his own strings. i'm pretty damn proud of the fact that i've taught myself how to do set ups. being self reliant is great. i don't care how much you spend for parts, any parts-o-caster builder will know more than your average pull-a-guitar-off-the-wall player.
tubby.twins
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I don't think there's anything wrong with "merely" being a builder. I do find a sense of pride and accomplishment in the basses that I've built for myself as well as those that I've helped to build for others.
Even though I haven't met a lot of people outside of these forums who would want to own any of my basses, I still feel that they have an intrinsic value to me which far exceeds any resale value I could hope to recoup. I built my first Gecko bass in 2006 and I learned a lot from that experience. Since then, I've figured out how to choose woods and pickups to achieve a desired result, and I've learned how to play better in order to take advantage of these basses.
But I don't have the time, aptitude or desire to learn how to cut, glue and carve the wood to make my own necks or bodies. I have a great respect for luthiers who are able to do this, but I know it is not my calling.
If this is what you need to become, in order to find your own sense of pride and accomplishment, then I say go for it! Make time, get the tools, and start from scratch.
Even though I haven't met a lot of people outside of these forums who would want to own any of my basses, I still feel that they have an intrinsic value to me which far exceeds any resale value I could hope to recoup. I built my first Gecko bass in 2006 and I learned a lot from that experience. Since then, I've figured out how to choose woods and pickups to achieve a desired result, and I've learned how to play better in order to take advantage of these basses.
But I don't have the time, aptitude or desire to learn how to cut, glue and carve the wood to make my own necks or bodies. I have a great respect for luthiers who are able to do this, but I know it is not my calling.
If this is what you need to become, in order to find your own sense of pride and accomplishment, then I say go for it! Make time, get the tools, and start from scratch.
and about warmoth builders being arrogant... obviously i'm biased since i've built 2 already, but i think warmoth builders are pretty well educated about their instruments. a friend of mine has a pretty big collection of guitars including a nice les paul and a PRS and he couldn't do much more than change his own strings. i'm pretty damn proud of the fact that i've taught myself how to do set ups. being self reliant is great. i don't care how much you spend for parts, any parts-o-caster builder will know more than your average pull-a-guitar-off-the-wall player.
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Well Said!
ccasion14:
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Well Said!
ccasion14:I really dont get the cost thing. the cost just doesn't seem that out there. to me.
It may be because I'm a lefty.
But If I wanted a Mahogany on Mahogany guitar, with excellent Kit on it and any kind of finish that doesn't look like it came from the imagination of a child. I'd be spending pretty much the same amount on it. but it would be that Soloist/strat style body.
Here. I can get a lefty with a finish an Adult would be proud of. made of what I want.IN THE SHAPE I WANT. with EXACTLY what I want on it.
I've done the math, and $1600 is a perfectly Competitive price to pay for a guitar that I know is EXACTLY what i want. when a Factory guitar "fixed" enought to be Comparable is often more.
and thats for a LOADED, Topped guitar. If I wanted to build it Down to Only what I need. I can scrape just under a grand.
As far as being a Builder, I have yet to even try. And I imagine I wont do all that much on my first guitar.
but I'd love to Luthier. I've been watching DAYS worth of tutorials on the matter. and if I could make around 30 grand a year... I'd probably be willing to do it for a living.
It may be because I'm a lefty.
But If I wanted a Mahogany on Mahogany guitar, with excellent Kit on it and any kind of finish that doesn't look like it came from the imagination of a child. I'd be spending pretty much the same amount on it. but it would be that Soloist/strat style body.
Here. I can get a lefty with a finish an Adult would be proud of. made of what I want.IN THE SHAPE I WANT. with EXACTLY what I want on it.
I've done the math, and $1600 is a perfectly Competitive price to pay for a guitar that I know is EXACTLY what i want. when a Factory guitar "fixed" enought to be Comparable is often more.
and thats for a LOADED, Topped guitar. If I wanted to build it Down to Only what I need. I can scrape just under a grand.
As far as being a Builder, I have yet to even try. And I imagine I wont do all that much on my first guitar.
but I'd love to Luthier. I've been watching DAYS worth of tutorials on the matter. and if I could make around 30 grand a year... I'd probably be willing to do it for a living.
If you want to start learning how to make bodies and doing more as a luthier then go for it, get slabs of wood from local shop as testers and get the route diagrams and such, by the sounds of it you already do what alot of luthiers here in england do, so id say you can class yourself as partly one already, good on ya :icon_thumright:
Far as building a warmoth is concerned this to be honest is the story of mine.
Well for the past two or three years since i found warmoth ive been going through ideas, first an sg, then a lp, then stopped looking for a while, came back, and made alot more ideas in my head,
however i would never of done one as my dad didnt see the good side of a third guitar, sadly however last september he passed away and i got some of his teachers pension as im at university, so the first thing i did was got on here
finalised my ideas for a bass that would be everything i wanted in one, Amazing colour (Purple) matching neck colour(Bloodwood) and just for fun a raw neck to see what the hype is for them!.
A different sound came next, in the form of a rio grande powerbucker and a jazz neck, no way i could get that apart from a jazz/mm expensive music man or warwick.
Sure i couldve got myself a warwick or music man a week after recieving the money, but i thought well thats not a good enough use of the money, so i ordered the parts, easter came and my birthday, decided it would be the final present from my dad in a sense, however it didnt get built then, but i came home at summer, and now its almost finished.
With the help of the other builders here i was able to assemble it myself. and know how to wire a guitar now.
Now im ending up with a guitar i wouldnt dream of selling ever, i never could. and if i had to save my epiphone , fender or warmoth, it would always be my warmoth, (partly as id build a replacement P bass from warmoth with the s1 switch!)
But basically all in all ive learnt alot just assembling this guitar, So if a guy on a forum thinks these guitars have no value, they have more value for alot of us than any store bought stock electronics mass produced piece of wood called a guitar.
Agwan also shows how warmoth is a hope for leftys aswell.
My friend ben had to buy a right handed guitar and learn right handed because there was such a bad choice of leftys when he started, but with warmoth leftys have been saved so to speak :cool01:
Far as building a warmoth is concerned this to be honest is the story of mine.
Well for the past two or three years since i found warmoth ive been going through ideas, first an sg, then a lp, then stopped looking for a while, came back, and made alot more ideas in my head,
however i would never of done one as my dad didnt see the good side of a third guitar, sadly however last september he passed away and i got some of his teachers pension as im at university, so the first thing i did was got on here
finalised my ideas for a bass that would be everything i wanted in one, Amazing colour (Purple) matching neck colour(Bloodwood) and just for fun a raw neck to see what the hype is for them!.
A different sound came next, in the form of a rio grande powerbucker and a jazz neck, no way i could get that apart from a jazz/mm expensive music man or warwick.
Sure i couldve got myself a warwick or music man a week after recieving the money, but i thought well thats not a good enough use of the money, so i ordered the parts, easter came and my birthday, decided it would be the final present from my dad in a sense, however it didnt get built then, but i came home at summer, and now its almost finished.
With the help of the other builders here i was able to assemble it myself. and know how to wire a guitar now.
Now im ending up with a guitar i wouldnt dream of selling ever, i never could. and if i had to save my epiphone , fender or warmoth, it would always be my warmoth, (partly as id build a replacement P bass from warmoth with the s1 switch!)
But basically all in all ive learnt alot just assembling this guitar, So if a guy on a forum thinks these guitars have no value, they have more value for alot of us than any store bought stock electronics mass produced piece of wood called a guitar.
Agwan also shows how warmoth is a hope for leftys aswell.
My friend ben had to buy a right handed guitar and learn right handed because there was such a bad choice of leftys when he started, but with warmoth leftys have been saved so to speak :cool01:
koshersteel
Junior Member
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as someone who has gone down this rabbit hole I can only offer the following advice. Building guitars is awesome, selling them is really hard. If you want to build for yourself then get some books and tools and wood and have at it. I can also recommend Charles Fox's American School of Lutherie in Portland, OR particularly if you are interested in acoustics. If you want to become a professional luthier building for others then don't quit your day job until you're pumping out 5-10 guitars a month and they are all being bought.
Q: How do you make one million dollars building guitars
A: Start with two million dollars.
Q: How do you make one million dollars building guitars
A: Start with two million dollars.
mayfly
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I've also been down this road - but with custom guitar amps. I did it for 5 years, and it was a tough slog.
I've been told that the amps that I made were some of the best out there. But they were very very hard to sell. Brand name and a distribution channel is everything. Ironically, the amps are starting to get better known and more sought after these days.
For someone setting out on this, I'd suggest working mostly on the selling end - get hooked up with stores and endorsements. Then make sure you're financially stable. Then start making the best freaking guitars you can.
Or just do it as a hobby. :headbang:
I've been told that the amps that I made were some of the best out there. But they were very very hard to sell. Brand name and a distribution channel is everything. Ironically, the amps are starting to get better known and more sought after these days.
For someone setting out on this, I'd suggest working mostly on the selling end - get hooked up with stores and endorsements. Then make sure you're financially stable. Then start making the best freaking guitars you can.
Or just do it as a hobby. :headbang:
Like most creative industries you must do it for yourself more than for money. I went into professional illustration not because I plan on being amazing at it and wealthy - but because I love to do it. And I've always felt that luthier work would probably take a similar approach. Make some guitars for yourself at least, play them and love them, and maybe you can sell them as you make better ones - because as you learn more about the process they will undoubtedly improve. Overtime it may just turn into something of a career 
Pursue the dream!
Pursue the dream!
drewfx
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I sometimes think it'd be cool to get a body blank (or just a nice piece of wood), and build something cool. Then I come to my senses and realize I don't have any of the tools, skills/experience, time, motivation, or patience to make it worth bothering with. I can assemble a parts guitar that will look/play as good or (much?) better than anything I would end up creating anyway.
And there are already tons of builders out there building "conventional" (i.e. Fender-style) guitars/basses. What's the point of building "from scratch" if you aren't going to do something really unique and different?
And I really don't care what anyone else thinks about what I build/do. Resale value will never be as good for any custom instrument (unless the maker is really well known) because it's custom. And resale value doesn't matter anyway if I don't want to sell it.
Overall I'd much rather have a great parts guitar/bass, than a mediocre scratch build.
And there are already tons of builders out there building "conventional" (i.e. Fender-style) guitars/basses. What's the point of building "from scratch" if you aren't going to do something really unique and different?
And I really don't care what anyone else thinks about what I build/do. Resale value will never be as good for any custom instrument (unless the maker is really well known) because it's custom. And resale value doesn't matter anyway if I don't want to sell it.
Overall I'd much rather have a great parts guitar/bass, than a mediocre scratch build.
pabloman said:
Why does he care? did something happen in his childhood? His angry stepdad spanked him with a Warmoth Neck?
Or maybe he is one of the guys that we pissed off... Butch? Blue Jay? Mark Spencer? Confederate Wookie? one of the recent Spammers?
Seriously, I don't think anybody here is taking themselves too seriously.. we are just having fun making custom guitars for ourselves and helping each other out with some advise here..
Cagey
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mayfly said:
Been there, done that, too. Never went into business to do it, it was always a sideline, but even there it was hardly worth it. I think that's why "boutique" amps cost so much. Guy says "Ok, I'll make you one, but by God it's gonna cost ya!" <grin>
As an aside, I was up at the local hardware with The Girl Next Door getting some parts to fix her bathroom sink, and she was pointing out a faucet like the one we'd just thrown away and replaced with something good, and she asked what the differences were. In the process of explaining what a "contractor special" was, a nearby patron overheard and wanted to know if I was a plumber. She starts singing my praises and they get to talking about pricing, and he mentions that he was quoted $300 to put in a bathroom faucet if he bought the parts. Naturally, he wanted to know what I charged, and I had a hard time explaining that I'd rather take a beating than install a bathroom/kitchen faucet. I mean, The Girl Next Door is the Girl Next Door. That's different <grin> Then I had to figure out how to explain to her why I turned down good-paying piece of side work when I was so clearly capable of doing it. What is it about young girls, anyway? <grin>
Some things are a cast iron bitch, but you do them for
cmalidore said:Like most creative industries you must do it for yourself more than for money. I went into professional illustration not because I plan on being amazing at it and wealthy - but because I love to do it. And I've always felt that luthier work would probably take a similar approach. Make some guitars for yourself at least, play them and love them, and maybe you can sell them as you make better ones - because as you learn more about the process they will undoubtedly improve. Overtime it may just turn into something of a career
Pursue the dream!
I went into Professional Illustration. then flipped out... left the business, didn't draw for 6 years and now load trailers for FedEx.
Fun Sidebar...
I make about as much loading trailers as I did designing Creatures/doing Pinups/Tattoo Flash/ car graphics...
and I'm starving...
AGWAN said:
Ah yes. The ol trailer days - I worked FedEx for about 3 months before running away and doing the illustration thing fulltime. It wasn't for me heh. I couldn't get my endurance up enough and there was just too much stupid in too small a space for my tolerance. Shutting myself in a room drawing horror and fantasy pictures for role playing games fit me far better! Though yes, there are times when the business side of things makes me wonder what the hell I was thinking...
Cagey
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ORCRiST said:
It's gotta be one of those two things - ignorance or envy. I haven't been here since day one, but I've been here long enough to know almost nobody takes themselves very seriously. Not that they don't have a right to a little smugness, but I haven't seen it. As close as I can tell, everybody is just tickled pink that they can build very high-quality instruments for a fraction of what you can buy them for from OEM suppliers, and are willing to tell others how to do it, too. But, that's almost certainly gonna piss some people off, particularly anyone who's paid an exorbitant amount of money for an OEM instrument, or who works for or owns a manufacturer or dealer. We're eating their lunch.
cmalidore said:
my god. YOU NOTICED THE EXCESSIVE STUPIDNESS TOO? my endurance is actually giving out. My two current Commisions are not going to be enough to pay ANYTHING though...
so its back to the labor jobs for me.
WoW and D&D Commisions are great. even if you think you failed the piece, they love it.
excluding that guy that is so in love with his troll that you just cant capture the mystique....
but that guy's a loon.
screw him.
drewfx
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Cagey said:
I was reading it differently - that maybe someone who considered himself a "real" luthier (i.e. someone who builds from scratch) was dissing Warmoth builders for being full of ourselves for just screwing a parts build together.
But it's still a ridiculous criticism. The genius of Leo Fender's designs is that you can build a fantastic instrument this way. Of course in the early days Gibson (and others) similarly mocked Fender's "primitive" instruments. Until he started outselling them...
And if we can build guitars from parts that equal (or surpass) the best guitars we've ever played or seen, I see no reason for not being enthusiastic about it. :blob7: :hello2:
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