Beginner looking to get a professional Finish.

[Syntheticocean]

I recently ordered my body/neck from Warmoth and I know where I want to go with the finishing but I need a little assistance from you guys.

I would like to get the finish shown in this PRS, only a deeper blue:

The body I ordered is Mahog/QuiltM top. Now, as for the Mahogany I'm planning on copying something I saw someone do on here with a slight twist. The guitar I saw was dyed black, with white grain filler and it looked amazing. My idea is to dye the back blue, with black grain filler. I have not seen it done, so I don't know if it will even look good, so if someone has seen it and can link it, that'd be awesome. The neck, is Mahog/Ebony fretboard and I have no idea how to finish a neck so thats where the first question comes.

How do I finish the neck? I want it to match the body, dyed blue with black grain filler. Howevver I need to protect that somehow. I'm not sure what will give me a durable finish over the dyed body/neck.

2nd question is... how do I make the body match the headstock? What would you guys do? Should I just laquer the front black? THe headstock isn't quilted maple like the face of the guitar so I think dying it wouldn't match.

So, I see 'tru oil' mentioned a lot. Is it easy to work with? Would that be my best bet to get a strong protective finish? Thanks for the help and all suggestions welcome!

 

[Jusatele]

there are a few guys here who can help you out, I am sure you will be in touch with them soon.

 

[richship]

I don't think blue dye on mahogany works well. Blue on orange makes mud. However, natural mahogany looks nice behind a blue-dyed maple top.

A matching headstock would require a peghead veneer. But either black or natural mahogany looks good too.

 

[Mor Paul]

Mahogany is quite variable as far as color goes. If you want to do a clearcoat (tint, don't dye), you need LIGHT mahogany. Does anyone here know how well mahogany bleaches?

 

[tfarny]

Five words: Tonar, Tonar, Tonar. Contact him.

 

[Syntheticocean]

Mahogany is quite variable as far as color goes. If you want to do a clearcoat (tint, don't dye), you need LIGHT mahogany. Does anyone here know how well mahogany bleaches?

Well going based on Warmoths site selecting Transparent blue, with mahogany on this page http://www.warmoth.com/Finish/GuitarFinish.aspx it gives me exactly the color I want on the back. So since the body and neck were ordered off of mahogany, it'd better give me the exact same result or I'll just have them honor the warranty.

 

[Paul-less]

Mahogany is quite variable as far as color goes. If you want to do a clearcoat (tint, don't dye), you need LIGHT mahogany. Does anyone here know how well mahogany bleaches?

Well going based on Warmoths site selecting Transparent blue, with mahogany on this page http://www.warmoth.com/Finish/GuitarFinish.aspx it gives me exactly the color I want on the back. So since the body and neck were ordered off of mahogany, it'd better give me the exact same result or I'll just have them honor the warranty.

.... Well, I don't know if I actually understand what this entire thread is asking for. It sounds to me like you want a professional looking finish, but you want to do it yourself. Just because nobody else has thrown it out there, if you want to do it yourself, you're going to have a hard time, especially with THAT finish. Additionally, I don't believe Warmoth has a warranty on "you finished it yourself, but it looks like ass." Additionally, if you ordered the finishing from them, if you look under the picture, it says, "Colors shown are an approximation of the final product, some variations are expected." Finally, like everybody else has said, mahogany varies widely in color. To simply go off of a digital representation of these colors sounds ridiculous.

Finally, I agree with tfarny. If you want this thing to look amazing, contact a member of the board named "Tonar". You won't be upset with anything he does, and he will probably help you find the best way to finish it.

 

[Syntheticocean]

Mahogany is quite variable as far as color goes. If you want to do a clearcoat (tint, don't dye), you need LIGHT mahogany. Does anyone here know how well mahogany bleaches?

Well going based on Warmoths site selecting Transparent blue, with mahogany on this page http://www.warmoth.com/Finish/GuitarFinish.aspx it gives me exactly the color I want on the back. So since the body and neck were ordered off of mahogany, it'd better give me the exact same result or I'll just have them honor the warranty.

.... Well, I don't know if I actually understand what this entire thread is asking for. It sounds to me like you want a professional looking finish, but you want to do it yourself. Just because nobody else has thrown it out there, if you want to do it yourself, you're going to have a hard time, especially with THAT finish. Additionally, I don't believe Warmoth has a warranty on "you finished it yourself, but it looks like ass." Additionally, if you ordered the finishing from them, if you look under the picture, it says, "Colors shown are an approximation of the final product, some variations are expected." Finally, like everybody else has said, mahogany varies widely in color. To simply go off of a digital representation of these colors sounds ridiculous.

Finally, I agree with tfarny. If you want this thing to look amazing, contact a member of the board named "Tonar". You won't be upset with anything he does, and he will probably help you find the best way to finish it.

Well, thats what bothers me. I didn't ask for anyone to criticize my choice of finish. I asked specifically how to protect it after the dye is applied for a professional strength finish. I have finished dozens of guitars with Lacquer and if thats the route I ahve to go, so be it. I could care less what anyone thinks of color. Personally I think the traditional sunburst colors look like shit, but I don't say something about 90% of the unoriginal 'creations' people put out there. I HATE strats. I don't complain about the 14 million unoriginal frankenshits out there.

Now. I know that colors vary for mahogany. As for the mahogany I'm expecting it to be very dark blue, near black after the dying. Hence the black grain filler.  I'm aiming for a dark blue on the quilt as well. What I want to know is what product should I use that is going to protect it. I've never used Tru Oil or other 'oil' products so I'm not familiar with them 'hardening'. I think of olive oil and vegetable oil and they don't harden. They stay greasy forever. So thats why I ask. I will contact Tonar. Thanks for the help.

 

[Mor Paul]

For strength, consider a poly finish. Tru-oil is not the hardest of finishes, and also will darken/warm up the finish it's applied over. For a very dark finish, this isn't desirable.

 

[Paul-less]

I'd just like to say I hope you didn't take anything I said the wrong way. Having said that, you're an a guitar forum. No matter how nice of a community, you are going to have somebody tell you that what you like is ugly, and that you're doing it wrong. I actually like both what you explained, and what others have suggested.


As for tru-oil, while it is a "hard finish", it is not a hard finish, and IMO offers absolutely NO physical protection. I do believe that it offers some great moisture control, and that it feels great. Also, it's some sort of blend of varnish with another oil.

I would suggest spraying either Nitro or Poly, but if you can't spray, go with wipe on poly. I suggest AGAINST spray cans, because if you spray light enough that they don't run, you get a cloudy smog in your clear, and if you spray heavy enough to stop that, you get runs. And the runs can be problematic, in all aspects of life....  :toothy11:

 

[Syntheticocean]

I'd just like to say I hope you didn't take anything I said the wrong way. Having said that, you're an a guitar forum. No matter how nice of a community, you are going to have somebody tell you that what you like is ugly, and that you're doing it wrong. I actually like both what you explained, and what others have suggested.


As for tru-oil, while it is a "hard finish", it is not a hard finish, and IMO offers absolutely NO physical protection. I do believe that it offers some great moisture control, and that it feels great. Also, it's some sort of blend of varnish with another oil.

I would suggest spraying either Nitro or Poly, but if you can't spray, go with wipe on poly. I suggest AGAINST spray cans, because if you spray light enough that they don't run, you get a cloudy smog in your clear, and if you spray heavy enough to stop that, you get runs. And the runs can be problematic, in all aspects of life....  :toothy11:

Sorry I took that out on you. I typed that as I was arguing with the girlfriend and I kinda diverted my anger from her, and towards you. Please don't take offense.

With nitro, it ages if I'm correct? I don't want the shade to turn greenish over time so would that mean that Poly would be my best bet?  I want a very smooth, mirror finish. Would it be difficult to achieve that when wiped on? I wish I had some test would to try out all my ideas on but unfortunately I don't and I don't think home depot would carry it and I'm not sure of where I could find a lumber yard nearby that would give me garbage wood for cheap. I may take the body to a lumberyard or something when I get it so I can compare the color of the mahogany and buy some scraps there that are as close as possible.

I know there is going to be a variation in the color of the wood, but it looks like almost all of Warmoths mahogany is a light to medium color and not TOO red. So, hopefully it will work well with blue.

 

[Cagey]

I don't know where Warmoth's mahogany comes from, but it's definitely not TOO red. I started on a solid mahogany Strat several months ago (see here) where I used potassium dichromate to bring out the natural tannins, rather than staining or color coating it. As you can see in that thread, there's not even a hint of red. It's a nice piece, but it's more of a brown than anything else.

I'm not attacking your color choice - I love blue, so please don't hurt me - but I can't see a blue over that. I'd expect it to come out an unpleasant shade of brown. But, I could be wrong. I'm not a finishing guru, I'm just old and have seen/done a lotta finishes.

I also wouldn't worry about ageing. Old finishes did that, but chemistries have changed and even the old finishes took forever to go to hell.

But, to answer your question directly (re: protection), you probably want a polyurethane finish. They're very robust and will take both physical and chemical abuse with a smile, for the most part. Downside is, it's not as easy to repair as lacquer. Lacquer will chip/scratch if you even look at it wrong, but you can fix it. Poly is hard to hurt, but if you're determined, it can be done. Then you're often looking at a complete refinish to make it right. So, for long-term day-to-day use, poly is the way to go. It'll return a mirror finish 5 minutes after you shoot it, no buffing/sanding/cussing/etc. required. Then, it'll last a long time with nominal attention. But, it's also highly toxic and doesn't dry too fast. So, you gotta have a very clean spray area, use protective gear, and pray to all that's holy that you don't run/sag the finish. Then, you've got some serious equipment cleanup to do, unless you're just going to throw the gun away.

Lacquer, on the other hand, practically dries coming out of the gun and when it's time to clean up, acetone will deal with any latent solids. Run or sag it, scratch or chip it, and you can sand it out and melt in another top coat. The vehicle (acetone) boils off fast and easy, so simple ventilation is all you need. If you pick up any suspended particulate matter in the air, you might not even notice it because you're going to be sanding/buffing your life away to make it right anyway.

In any event, there are a couple/few other guys on the forum who've done this a lot more than I have, so you might want to wait for them to weigh in before you do anything. I'm certainly no expert. I'm barely a spert <grin>

 

[Syntheticocean]

Well, I found a perfect example of the color I'm aiming for. Almost the same specs, but a flamed maple top rather than a quilted maple. However the back is mahogany and looks amazing.

 

[pabloman]

I had one of those original Santana SE's that was all mahogany with a trans blue finish. It looked good and seems to be exactly what you want. And BTW welcome to the forum. The guys here are great smart as hell and very to the point. Sometimes that causes issues with new members. I guess it's part of taking your lumps.(maybe we could start a poll on that) :toothy11: