Audiophools, Monster Cable and Coat Hangers

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Superlizard

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So, being the recently proud owner of a new home and a Denon AVR-1911 + Klipsch HD Theater 1000 setup,
I also had the joy of researching the little extras one needs for a full theater experience in the home (cables,
connectors, speaker stands, HDMI, subwoofer cable, molding, the kitchen sink etc)...

Along those lines, there was plenty of discussion regarding Monster Cable vs. everything else in my ventures.

This is too funny:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and/

disclaimer:  Yes, I did buy Monster Cable 16 ga. hookup wire; it ain't that much more and it looks purdy.  :laughing7:
 
I have no idea what Monster cables are, but there was some talk about HDMI cables over here about a year ago. The gist of it was that since digital interfaces only transfer 1s and 0s, there is no better or worse cable. You can't improve the quality of "on/off". Analog cables are another matter, but that's an ant's nest I'm leaving alone...
 
Monster is a company that manufactures and sells audio and video cables.  They have a reputation for being either (a) tremendously overpriced cables that are no better than anyone else's, or (b) really awesome cables that do a better job of transmitting signals than any other mass-produced device.

Me, I think they're masters of marketing a product that is otherwise completely commoditized.  If you can't differentiate on quality, differentiate on hype!

Bagman
 
kbomån said:
I have no idea what Monster cables are, but there was some talk about HDMI cables over here about a year ago. The gist of it was that since digital interfaces only transfer 1s and 0s, there is no better or worse cable. You can't improve the quality of "on/off". Analog cables are another matter, but that's an ant's nest I'm leaving alone...
Click to expand...

For digital transmission cable, there is the right and wrong cable.  The on/off part isn't the problem, it is trying to transmit a crap ton of them in a short amount of time.  Some cables are not meant for the high frequency demand of digital signal, and tend to choke out the high frequency signal from getting through.  The result would be a sparatic audio or video, or basically loss of information.  I think the HDMI thing you heard about is that since it is the HDMI standard, one cable can't be any better than the other, which is true to some extent given the length of the cable.  Those HDMI cables had to be spec'd to a basic requirement of the standard, and some go above and beyond where it wouldn't make a difference.  You wouldn't, however, want to try to send PCM audio down a thin analog RCA cable, or you will hear the audio equivalent of pixellation.
 
Monster and Mogami for no other reason than that is the only cable I will ever have to buy.  They do cost more, but far less than buying a new cable or splicing kit everytime one goes bad.  I've already replaced 2 Monster cables.  One went bad and the other had the same amount of use and should've been.  Hey, they make the rules.
 
BlueFirebird said:
kbomån said:
I have no idea what Monster cables are, but there was some talk about HDMI cables over here about a year ago. The gist of it was that since digital interfaces only transfer 1s and 0s, there is no better or worse cable. You can't improve the quality of "on/off". Analog cables are another matter, but that's an ant's nest I'm leaving alone...
Click to expand...

For digital transmission cable, there is the right and wrong cable.  The on/off part isn't the problem, it is trying to transmit a crap ton of them in a short amount of time.  Some cables are not meant for the high frequency demand of digital signal, and tend to choke out the high frequency signal from getting through.  The result would be a sparatic audio or video, or basically loss of information.  I think the HDMI thing you heard about is that since it is the HDMI standard, one cable can't be any better than the other, which is true to some extent given the length of the cable.  Those HDMI cables had to be spec'd to a basic requirement of the standard, and some go above and beyond where it wouldn't make a difference.  You wouldn't, however, want to try to send PCM audio down a thin analog RCA cable, or you will hear the audio equivalent of pixellation.
Click to expand...

Thin RCA cables are routinely used for carrying PCM audio. The only key is the s/pdif standard requires 75ohm cable, which is different than the impedance of audio cables. And though digital transmission is indeed very high frequency, the signal has to be severely degraded before you get any clicks/pops/dropouts. So any remotely decent cable of the proper impedance is fine for digital, and "just barely good enough" is all you really need.
 
Monster has a standardized, automatic process of sending out threatening, legalese-addled letters to all their competitors claiming patent rights and demanding "payments" to be allowed to continue marketing, ummm, cables. And, more comically, they've also threatened Monster Mini-Golf, Monster Energy Drink, Monster Garage, Monster Paintballs, and pretty much anywhere else they think they might be able to "scare" up some bucks. They also try the Gibsonesque tactic of demanding that a retailer buy a certain minimum amount, and they try to squeeze out their competitor's product's shelf space. Quite famously, they went after WalMart this way, so Walmart dumped them completely and began carrying their own brands of relabeled Chinese junk until Monster came crawling back.

Their cables certainly do perform to an average standard, at least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_cables
 
BlueFirebird said:
For digital transmission cable, there is the right and wrong cable.  The on/off part isn't the problem, it is trying to transmit a crap ton of them in a short amount of time.  Some cables are not meant for the high frequency demand of digital signal, and tend to choke out the high frequency signal from getting through. 
Click to expand...

I cant see the highs getting choked in digital, only everything getting choked.  There is no difference between high and low frequency in digital, it all moves through the wire the same.

Cat 5 cable, plain ol' Cat 5, can do 1000Base-T (1,000,000,000 bits per second) or gigabit speed up to 328 feet... I fail to see any choke there for a music spectrum that must cover audio to 20,000 cycles.  Just this ol' farmers way of lookin' at it.
 
=CB= said:
BlueFirebird said:
For digital transmission cable, there is the right and wrong cable.  The on/off part isn't the problem, it is trying to transmit a crap ton of them in a short amount of time.  Some cables are not meant for the high frequency demand of digital signal, and tend to choke out the high frequency signal from getting through. 
Click to expand...

I cant see the highs getting choked in digital, only everything getting choked.  There is no difference between high and low frequency in digital, it all moves through the wire the same.

Cat 5 cable, plain ol' Cat 5, can do 1000Base-T (1,000,000,000 bits per second) or gigabit speed up to 328 feet... I fail to see any choke there for a music spectrum that must cover audio to 20,000 cycles.   Just this ol' farmers way of lookin' at it.
Click to expand...
Right you are there CB, I just meant that coathangers and paperclips, or anything else for that matter that isn't suitable for digital will start dropping information.  Even digital isn't a perfect square wave, and the quick transition between zero and one slopes up slightly.  The wrong cable will exaggerate the problem.  At least audio is not as picky as video, and even DVI video still can be sent down many feet of Cat 5 with a converter, and still look pretty on the other end. :icon_biggrin:
 
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