Asymmetrical neck profile.

[cembo]

Hi guys,

making it short, regarding to stability does asymmetrical neck tend to warp/twist more than symmetrical. Regarding to tone, does asymmetrical neck make good option for those who wants sustain and more bassy tone of let say 59 Roundback plus fast feeling of Standard Thin neck.

What I want is a neck with full-bodied punchy tone and good sustain with profile suitable for shredding.
I'm thinking about vintage/modern construction, roasted/quartersawn maple and SS6100 frets.

Thanks.

 

[Kostas]

...regarding to stability does asymmetrical neck tend to warp/twist more than symmetrical. Regarding to tone, does asymmetrical neck make good option for those who wants sustain and more bassy tone of let say 59 Roundback plus fast feeling of Standard Thin neck...

The only experience I have is with a friends SRV neck. He has it for 6-7 years, one piece flame maple (vintage modern) and it's a stable neck. I can't comment about the tone and the feeling is subjective. The shape if my favorite but I wish it was thicker as I play FAT & 59 profiles so it's not for me. He thinks it's quite a thick neck since he compares it to his US Fender strat with a neck like the Standard Thin.

 

[Cagey]

I've never heard of offset profiles causing any misbehavior of the neck. If you compare the dimensions and cross-sections of the various profiles here, you will see that there really isn't a great deal of difference. You can't even see it if you're just looking at the neck, you have to fondle it to tell. Then it feels like a HUGE difference. 

I think roasted Maple with SS 6100 frets is a great neck. I have several now, and highly recommend them. It's unnecessary to have a quartersawn piece - that sectioning is intended more for stability than anything else, and roasted Maple is already so stable it doesn't even require a finish.

As for sound, thicker necks do tend to sound "chunkier", mainly because there's less "give" to them so they don't absorb energy from the strings quite as much as a thinner neck will. More harmonic reflections stay in the strings rather than getting "grounded out". But, you can always go to a denser wood and accomplish much the same thing in something thinner. Pau Ferro or Satine (Bloodwood) would be good choices if you want chunkier sound and thinner dimensions. For a shredder, a "standard thin" (which isn't really very thin) Pau Ferro neck, perhaps with an Ebony fretboard and big ol' stainless frets would be the ultimate. Sex on a stick, as they say. But, the difference between that and roasted Maple is pretty small. In a blind taste test, you might not notice it at all.

 

[aarontunes]

Keep in mind that nut width is inextricably linked to the back profile when it comes to how a neck feels and plays. You almost can't talk about one without talking about the other.


For example, a 59 Roundback profile neck with a 1-11/16" nut width is gonna feel pretty dang different from a 59 Roundback with a 1-5/8" nut width.


Asymmetric profiles won't make a neck twist or become stable. At all. As far as tone, asymmetric necks are a fantastic combination of increased girth and easier playability. All the "back" is on the palm side of the neck, while the finger side remains easy-peasy and unobstructed.


After trying lots of different combos, my favorite nut width/back profile for "shred-ability with girth" is a Wolfang with 1-5/8" nut width. If you want even more girth, go with the SRV and 1-5/8".

 

[Cagey]

That's true. You wouldn't think 1/16" would make that much difference - it's 62 thousandths of an inch - but the feel in the hand is dramatic.

A thousandth of an inch is pretty small. And as I explained to my idiot 1st wife, because they're so small there are millions of them in an inch. To which she nodded sagely and said "I know"  :laughing7:

 

[bagman67]

As for me, the 1/16" makes all the difference in the other direction.  A 1 5/8" neck feels waaay too small in my hand.  This is what makes horseraces.

 

[Cagey]

Indeed. 1 5/8" feels like a broomstick to me, while 1 3/4" is more like the fat end of a baseball bat. 1 11/16" is the only width that works, and there oughta be a law.

 

[aarontunes]

As for me, the 1/16" makes all the difference in the other direction.  A 1 5/8" neck feels waaay too small in my hand.  This is what makes horseraces.

Yep.

To misquote an oft cited and dubiously credited phrase: writing about neck shapes is like dancing about architecture.

The only way to figure out what profile you like is to try a few.

 

[cembo]

... thanks guys, very much appreciated  ccasion14: ...

... I forgot to add that due to the size of my hands my first Warmoth neck was modern flatsawn one piece maple with Fatback profile and 1-7/8" nut width , 16" straight radius and SS6100. This neck is stable like hell and my fat fingers can beautifully accomplish classic D-maj, solos are cleaner and overall sound is amazing. Punchy resonant with great sustain, tones are just popping out of neck like from piano. I just love maple. But it still feels bit too fat especially after I play my Tele Deluxe which I have to admit feels comfortable, but maybe because I haven't tried 59 profile or SRV or other ones yet. So basically I would say something little more thicker and little more wider (maybe 1-3/4" ?) than my tele with easy access to strings (16" straight rad.) seems to be good choice for me because I'm rather fusion orientated than chords player. Or as Cagey has mentioned in here already different wood might be an answer if there is wood with similar tone to maple, bright, percussive etc ...

... does really that extra wood on SRV or Wolfgang add thickness and sustain to tone comparing to classic C profile ...

 

[Cagey]

... does really that extra wood on SRV or Wolfgang add thickness and sustain to tone comparing to classic C profile ...

It's difficult to say. I've had examples of them here, but they've always been on different guitars with myriad other tonal influences, so who knows what effect and how much influence each difference had?

If you have a hyper-critical ear, then two necks cut to identical dimensions/profile from the same tree might sound slightly different. It's just the nature of wood. It's organic, and no two pieces are the same. You can describe general expectations depending on the species, but past that? Phbbbt. You never know. It's why you hear stories about "the one that got away": some cookie cutter guitar like a bog-standard Strat from Fender that just has that "perfect storm" of variables that makes the thing sound magical - then in a fit of stupid the owner sells/trades/loses it.

To my ear, the Pau Ferro, Bloodwood, Brazilian Ebony, Canary and the various Maples all sound very similar to each other as far as bandwidth. You hit a power chord and you get a nice, satisfying "Kerrang!" out of the deal. Strings are all represented, and they all ring out nicely. If you want to articulate notes, they sound out. Additionally, the Pau Ferro, Bloodwood, Brazilian Ebony are denser, so there seems to be a little more sustain to be had. As for feel, the Pau Ferro, Bloodwood, and roasted Maple are all very similar to each other. The Brazilian Ebony has a pretty close grain, but not as close as you might imagine for something called "Ebony" (it's not a true Ebony). The Canary has the most open grain of the lot, but we're talking about some pretty dense woods here so when I say "open", I don't mean like Mahogany, I mean relative to the others mentioned here.

 

[cembo]

Thanks Cagey, very helpful. And it looks like those alternative woods you have mentioned don't even need finish.

 

[Cagey]

Oh, you definitely  don't want to put a finish on them. That's like putting a plastic cover on a calfskin leather couch. Plus, the savings realized by not finishing them will sometimes pay the premium cost of an exotic wood. If you do anything at all, you burnish them, which is highly recommended. The feel of a burnished raw neck is just sublime - it's like the finest silk you ever wrapped your paw around. Super fast, and as comfortable as a neck can get. Then, it not only lasts longer than an artificial "satin" finish, it can be refreshed easily with a lick and a promise from some super-fine grit abrasive. Rarely necessary - I've got necks here I haven't had to pay any attention to for years - but it's easy enough to do.

 

[musicispeace]

I can attest to what Cagey says about unfinished necks for woods Warmoth considers stable enough to go without a finish. I have an all Bubinga neck and an all roasted maple one that are unfinished, burnished, and feel like glass to play.

 

[cembo]

... I have never been thinking about exotic wood really, all my life I have been using one piece maple neck (excluding cheap guitars in the past). I will give it a go then. Looks like Wolfgang 1-3/4 with 16" straight is going to be it, which brings me to another question. I have to admit I'm bit too much obsessed with one piece neck, I guess because I always had that impression that one piece neck has 'better' tone than laminated one. There are many vintage guys and tone purists talking about this topic, making one bit confused  ...

 

[Cagey]

If you take a piece of 1" x 2" x 18" birch, and a piece of birch plywood of the same dimensions, hang them each by a piece of string, then knock on them, you will find that the solid piece has a very slight ring to it, while the plywood will sound dead. That's an extreme example, but it's easily imagined without actually doing it if you've played with any wood at all.

When you glue a fretboard to a chunk of wood, you're creating a laminate that's going to have some sound deadening qualities, even though you're actually creating a stiffer, stronger piece. In the case of the neck, the sound deadening is going to be barely discernable, but it exists if you have sensitive enough instrumentation to monitor it. Personally, I feel like most guitars have far larger concerns, to the point where whatever losses are incurred by laminating the neck aren't even worthy of discussion. The difference is buried under dozens of other tone suckers. Plus, you'll notice the Martins and Taylors of this aren't worried about it, and they're making acoustics. If anyone should worry about it, it would be those guys.

 

[stratamania]

There are plenty of instruments with laminated necks of some sort that sound very good. Conversely, there are one piece necks on cheaper instruments that overall don't sound so good.

It's just another choice.  As for the glue to join them together, set necks use it and folks will also assert that it gives better tone transference than a bolt on. The same glue in a neck laminate then gets debated as to being a possible negative.

My take, the important thing is whatever construction is employed is to use quality materials and hardware following a sensible design and to take care to make sure that those are constructed and finely detailed as well as possible.

If in doubt, stick to tried and true types of "recipes".

 

[cembo]

... thank you guys for your time  :icon_thumright: ... after reading all posts in here I have done some thinking, I have realized that most important key is how comfortable will neck feel in my hand and considering that majority of my experience is C shaped fender maple neck I went for that one. For stability and tonal improvement I have chosen qsawn + roasted modern/vintage, 16" straight, with SS6100 (which I have on my previous warmoth neck, can't praise those frets enough). I believe with my standard strat 1987 body it will rock ...

 

[Cagey]

Roasted Maple with stainless 6100s? Huge win. Huge. Good for you! Gonna be one of the best necks you ever played.

 

[davegardner0]

As for me, the 1/16" makes all the difference in the other direction.  A 1 5/8" neck feels waaay too small in my hand.  This is what makes horseraces.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's extremely picky about nut width, not to mention back shape. I agree, 1/16" feels hugely different! Although to put it into context, the limits of size differences that human hands can feel in general are really crazy small:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-smallest-thing-you-can-feel-with-your-hands
http://www.isciencetimes.com/articles/6073/20130917/sensitive-human-touch-new-research-suggests-fingers.htm

 

[cembo]

Roasted Maple with stainless 6100s? Huge win. Huge. Good for you! Gonna be one of the best necks you ever played.

... thanks, I believe this neck will give me exactly what I want. I have never really developed taste for that sort of 'mellow' tones. And to get the best of this neck I decided to go for BladeRunner tremolo with carbon steel block and Callaham sadddles. Will see how it will sound plugged into my 2203 with preamp at 9 o'clock and poweramp at max ...