Alder vs. swamp ash (Tele/Strat)

[Stringtheorist]

What are the opinions on alder for a Tele/Strat body vs. swamp ash? What tonal differences should I expect to hear? I've read Warmoth's descriptions but it's not helping me to make a decision.

 

[AutoBat]

From an aesthetic standpoint, ash usually looks better with translucent finishes.
I'm not one to notice many tonal differences in electric guitar woods.

 

[Cagey]

What are the opinions on alder for a Tele/Strat body vs. swamp ash? What tonal differences should I expect to hear? I've read Warmoth's descriptions but it's not helping me to make a decision.

Fender moved from Swamp Ash to Alder due to availability/price more than anything else. Generally speaking, they're pretty similar tone-wise. Swamp Ash is more variable, though. Depending on where on the tree it's cut from and how it's cut, it can change character. It's not dramatic, though. If appearance is important and you wanna see some wood, Swamp Ash looks better with translucent/burst finishes.

Alder is more predictable, albeit more plain/non-descript and so better suited to the various opaque finishes. Alder also takes less work to make ready for finishing, since its grain is finer. It's also frequently lighter weight, but not by a huge margin. Depends on the piece of Swamp Ash you're comparing to. That stuff can be all over the map.

In any event, they're both moderately stiff and moderately dense, so you get a moderate response to agitation.

In my experience, Swamp Ash has slightly more high end and sustain, but as I said, it's variable. Best guitar I've ever had tone-wise was Alder, and my current favorite is also Alder. But, that may be and probably is the pickups more than the wood. Solid body guitars have a lot of mass to them than acoustics, even when using relatively lightweight woods, and pickups respond to string vibration not body vibration, so while there's some interaction there it's nowhere near as important or influential as it is with acoustic guitars.

 

[Heavy Rock]

I was searching the same thing about a year ago and I decided to go with Alder as it seems to have more low-mids making it sound a bit fuller and I'm a low-mid whore! :binkybaby: I've read this also from some people too.

As for aesthetics, I like ash more so it's gonna be alder w/ ash laminate top.

Check this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0jfoPbNlT8

 

[Slylock Fox]

pickups respond to string vibration not body vibration

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.  I'm confused.  I thought wood density played a factor in this.

 

[line6man]

pickups respond to string vibration not body vibration

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.  I'm confused.  I thought wood density played a factor in this.

Magnetic pickups tranduce disturbances in their magnetic fields caused by the vibration of the strings.
They should not see body resonance, unless they are microphonic. Then again, this is one of those things people like to argue about. Nonsense about direct mounting versus pickup rings and such.

The body wood, as well as all of the other factors, like neck woods and hardware, influence the vibration of the string.

 

[Cagey]

pickups respond to string vibration not body vibration

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.  I'm confused.  I thought wood density played a factor in this.

It does. Different woods, hardware and body designs will absorb different frequencies to a greater or lesser degree. So, the strings lose energy at different rates. The pickups pay attention to the strings, so depending on how much gets lost (or not), you may hear the effect.

 

[Jusatele]

Body wood can have an effect on the pickup. as well as mounting method, as well as winding method, as well as wire size. etc
but then there are so many factors involved I really do not think the difference between Ash and Adler is that much different, they have very similar tonal characters. My opinion, argue it if you want, it has been argued to death, so what.

However from a manufacturers view point Adler makes a ton of since over Ash. not to go into availability and price but just the work to use it, Ash needs a grain filler, Adler does not, that is one step not needed to do, and that saves a lot of money. Remember that they can make decisions over the cost savings of pennies per unit, if we skip an entire process we save dollars.

I have used both, I think Ash is better for clear finishes as the grain seems to have a better POP.

 

[tfarny]

Alder vs. Ash, if it matters at all, is so far down the list of things that influence your tone it's not even funny. I have this secret trick I use if my guitar is sounding "too bright" or something - I move these knobs on my amp called "treble" and "bass" around till it sounds better. If I feel like tweaking even more I adjust pickup height and angle! I may even use the "tone" knob on one or more of my pedals. It's amazing what you can do with electric as opposed to acoustic guitars these days.

 

[Stratman44]

:icon_thumright: Alder! the nicest sounting wood out of the two. It deelivers that chime iand classic vibe you here in most vintage fenders. but i have to admit ash has the looks.

 

[Johnfv]

Yes, the pickup captures the vibration of the strings but all the other mechanical aspects of the guitar (solid vs. hollow body, wood, nut, bridge, etc.) impact how the string vibrates. Think of a dramatic example like a hollow body guitar that will feedback easily. Why? The body resonates which translates to vibrations in the string that the pickups capture. Part of the fun I've had being obsessed with building "partscaster" guitars lately is getting to explore these differences. If you don't think wood makes a significant difference then build 2 guitars with the same pickups and different wood (I have multiples like that). I can assure you the differences are very real. Keep in mind 2 bodies of the same type of wood can be quite different. That said, alder generally has more mids and is warmer; swamp ash has tight bottom end and more top end presence - almost "scooped" compared to alder. A nice compromise is chambered swamp ash, the chambers add some additional resonance that warms the swamp ash.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Most all pickups have some level of microphonics to them as well.  If you impregnate the things with epoxy and make them a solid block that can withstand 60,000 lbs (yes, Hilte makes those epoxies) they tend not to sound as good.  All of this is based on opinion, so results vary.
Patrick

 

[tdale]

Try to strum a chord, unplugged, and then, when the chord rings, place the body of the guitar against a table or desk, and notice the difference in sound. Strings make the signal, but many things affect the way the strings vibrate...

 

[AutoBat]

That would be wood on wood with no bonding agent.  You can put a phone on a table and it will have a difference in sound vs in your hand.

 

[Jusatele]

Try to strum a chord, unplugged, and then, when the chord rings, place the body of the guitar against a table or desk, and notice the difference in sound. Strings make the signal, but many things affect the way the strings vibrate...

No, the string does not make the signal, the signal is made in the pickup, the vibration of the string is a major factor that effects it's creation however. There are also a lot of things that effect it however, even florescent lights. Body wood, mounting method, hardware design and quality, etc., all of these thing have bearing on how the signal is created as they effect either the vibration of the string, solidness of the mounting method or other things going on in the basic platform the pickup is in. Even variances in the way the pickup is wound can effect the signal.  But the signal is created in the coil of the pickup, all other factors just effect how the signal is made.

 

[jackthehack]

The only real difference on a solid body Strat/Tele is going to be the wood graining; if you're going to finish the body yourself, alder is easier as you do not need to fill grain.

 

[duosonic]

to my ear ash is a little more articulate.  it's a little brighter and the notes tend to be clearer.  the alder is has more low mids to me.  I agree with everyone on if you want a cool translucent finish to get the ash.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I find Swamp Ash to be more bright, less lows.  Wood with a hi-pass filter, so to speak.

I find Alder to be more focused (especially in the mids) , less harsh highs, nice & tight lows.

 

[stubhead]

I go with TFS, here. Swamp ash is like a rigid honeycomb structure - if you filled in all the voids with wood as rigid as the hard stuff, it'd be like solid maple or walnut - heavy. And I also agree that your amp should have more than enough tonal control to be able to place your tone in the pleasing middle of the range. I also wire guitars this way.

To me there's nothing sillier that someone who sets all the knobs on his/her/it's guitar at 10, then sets the amp to sound it's best, then says "volume and tone knobs suck - they make my sound worse." Duh - everything is subtractive only. If you set your amp to sound it's best with the guitar controls on 7, you have room to rumble. And in wiring, if the tone control only sounds good at 10, your capacitor's too big - try a .033 on single coils, a .015 on humbuckers....

 

[ORCRiST]

to my ear ash is a little more articulate.  it's a little brighter and the notes tend to be clearer.  the alder is has more low mids to me.  I agree with everyone on if you want a cool translucent finish to get the ash.

Bah. If you want a cool translucent finish, get whatever wood you want - there are laminate tops for a reason!