A Few Telecaster Questions

tfarny said:
Cagey, your (brilliiant and insightful!) analysis ignores the fact that bridge construction / type really does affect the sound of the guitar, certainly in a more consistent way than body woods, for instance. Second, as far as intonation goes - you DO know that any guitar, no matter how many saddles, is going to be off by about 4 cents or more no matter what unless you also compensate at the nut, right? given that fact, if a slant angled 3 saddle can get me to within one cent at the 12th fret, further worry about intonation with standard frets and nut is just Eric Johnson-ry.
I just received my hipshot 3 saddle compensated tele bridge, and it looks like a design that would make you and I both happy - no lip, lightweight, compensated saddles, but also ferrous steel / brass / 3 saddle construction.
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Yes, I know there are issues with guitar necks and tuning. I even went so far as to have Warmoth install an Earvana nut on one just to hear what all the fuss was about.

If you can get a standard Tele bridge to intonate across all six strings to within 1 cent at the 12th fret, then good for you. I'd be suspicious of your tuner, though.

That said, I also know that simply covering the strings with your hand and rubbing it up and down the neck for a short bit will put the tuning off several cents as well. So, I'd agree there is a certain amount of Eric Johnson-ry going on among the bitchers like me that doesn't amount to Jack.

I'm still never going to buy a traditional Tele bridge, though <grin>
 
Hah! I win on the internet! Yah! Hoo-ra!  :headbang: :headbang:
Within one cent using compensated saddles, not straight ones. When I get this new one I'll give a report on the intonation - as far as I know I'm the first forumite to use it, and I didn't even get hits at tdpri on it.
 
tfarny said:
Hah! I win on the internet! Yah! Hoo-ra!  :headbang: :headbang:
Within one cent using compensated saddles, not straight ones. When I get this new one I'll give a report on the intonation - as far as I know I'm the first forumite to use it, and I didn't even get hits at tdpri on it.
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What's this new one of which you speak?  (<- translation: I'm too lazy to read your previous postings on it)
 
Not to be argumentative, but all fretted instruments will be "off" due to the nature of tempered tuning and the fret system.  Find a happy medium that you can live with and call it good.  The "3 saddle teles don't intonate properly" argument is really silly, in my view.  It's a tone/feel thing.  My main Tele has a 6 saddle bridge and always has, but I like the "feel" of some of my 3 saddle ones better, at times.  As has been stated, you can get some reasonably intonated saddles now, and I will reiterate that your guitar will never be perfectly intonated.  That's our 12 tone music in full effect. 

-Mark
 
I beleive that is Just tuning, with tempered tuning they would be able to nail it, but then it would sound off to our ears even if it were perfect
our ears are tuned to hundreds of years of music tuned to just tuning, tempered tuning is the mathematicians telling us we are all wrong and they are all right
Problem with that is the notes sound sweet to the human ear on just tuning, with tempered they sound slightly flat and sharp depending.

a good read on it is here

http://www.terryblackburn.us/music/temperament/stoess.htm
 
I never understood why guitar players have such a hard time with this.  Major and minor thirds especially need to be lifted/raised, as well as 6th, 7ths, etc to ring true.  It's not mathematicians who are saying this, it's vocal and instrumental musicians.  Any instrument that plays multiple notes at once will not be perfectly intonated without adjustment from the player.  At some point, we call it "good enough" temperament and move on.

-Mark
 
The problem is not the instrument, it is the ear. Nature played a game with us that does not mathematically work out. So the need for the adjustments, however music that is played in true temperment sound awful because the ear does not find the notes in tune with the ear.
what ever
this is a deep theory discussion we should carry elsewhere, and as theory it is not fact, As I always say, If music theory was fact, then we would have only 1 song.
 
one that can shock you if you are wearing a belt with a metal buckle..........................................................

































NO, not reall, one made by dangerous R6, a member here that makes the most killer neck plates ever.
 
Jusatele said:
The problem is not the instrument, it is the ear. Nature played a game with us that does not mathematically work out. So the need for the adjustments, however music that is played in true temperment sound awful because the ear does not find the notes in tune with the ear.
what ever
this is a deep theory discussion we should carry elsewhere, and as theory it is not fact, As I always say, If music theory was fact, then we would have only 1 song.
Click to expand...

I think I'll do more harm than good by explaining in too much depth what I meant that was misunderstood, so I'll keep this short.  This isn't deep; it's widely known and accepted, and has been for almost 600 years.  It was known to be flawed, but accepted as "the best we can do."

My point in posting any of this was to anyone feeling like they *need* a certain bridge or nut in order to be "perfect."  Perfect is impossible by nature, so find the tools that are most pleasing to your musical experience.  Almost all widely available bridges/nuts that are not budget models will not do you especially wrong.


-Mark

P.S.  We can start a new thread about intonation in general, equal temperament, etc if anyone is actually interested.  Anyone else with a background in musical education, feel free to chime in.
 
I think we are barking up the same tree, and face to face would have accepted each others remarks. It is the internet thing that made us disagree. And truly if you look at the differences of Just and True the are not that far apart, just they vary -to+ . I first came aware of it when I was Poking around with a piano, then noticed it on the guitar, and as I continued to play I noticed that Trombone players have no problem with it. I was reading a paper written about it 2 weeks ago that really went into the deep math when I looked up and decided, Who Gives A F*#$ about the math. It is the ear that in the end tells us if we like it. I notice the guys playing the guitars with the weird frets that are true tuned only sell to a small crowd of guys anyway, similar to free jazz guys, kinda like what we call musicians music because no one else understands, or wants to.
Bottom line is that Telecaster sound is loved and adored, and it is not in intonation very well, but it pleases the ear of the masses. :eek:ccasion14:
 
Max said:
Ha, yeah, who gives a Fm#7?
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Hah, well played Max!

But seriously, I don't know any guitarist who tunes exactly to their tuner (or pitch-pipe, or keyboard, or harmonica (me) or whatever...) and then just plays.
Regardless of Just or True intonation, I'm sure we all intonate a little differently to please our own ears. I'm sure no two forum member could swap guitars and not tweak the tuning a little.
Cheers,
Johnny
 
I like the Barden bridge a lot, especially since I would not consider spending $150 plus on the Glendale, Callham etc ones.
 
Street Avenger said:
Doesn't anyone like the Joe Barden compensated 3-saddle Tele bridge?
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The barden bridge is a quality product at a good price. I have one.
 
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