'66 Vibro Champ

[BillyBoy]

Just got an all original '66 Vibro Champ. I love the tone. I just play at home and my 2006 Blues Deluxe was blowing me out of the room. This one is perfect.

Put the original speaker in a box in the closet and replaced it with a Jensen Vintage Series C8R. Also had the caps replaced. The tremolo was really weak. Sounds great now.

 

[Doughboy]

Is this an actuall 66 or a reissue? If it's original, it looks amazing.

 

[Cagey]

It looks like the real deal to me. That's a good catch, these days. Back when I was a grasshopper, they used to practically give those things away. Champs and Vibro-Champs were what you bought when you was a no-job no-house walkin'-the-dog po' boy. And that was only if you couldn't find one in the trash somewhere. Nowadays, they're like little gold nuggets and basement entrepreneur wannabees base new builds on them and charge $3K for the result. Y'know - bein' all boutique-y and all. So, good for you! There's a reason they're desirable - they sound real. Proven RCA design from top engineers.

 

[BillyBoy]

Thanks! Yes, all original. Even the tubes are original ones. Although, no telling if they are the ones that came with that amp.

Now the bad news. I was jamming through it yesterday for a couple of hours. Stopped, ate dinner and came back. Now it won't turn on. I sure hope it's just a fuse.

I forgot to have the guy replace the two prong plug with a three prong. So I'll just run it back over there this week.

 

[Cagey]

Leave it off until you can get it to a tech, and tell him the same story. The most likely failure in old amps like that is the filter caps on the power supply go tits-up. They dry up and several things happen. One, they lose capacity so they don't filter like they're supposed to. This usually manifests itself as a severe 60hz hum even when there's no old Strat or Tele plugged in. Taken care of early, no harm done. Two, they get conductive and overheat, which usually leads to three, where either a fuse opens due to excessive current draw or they explode. Amp explosions are NFG, no matter how cool the idea sounds <grin>

Dried up filter caps aren't as much an issue with amps built in the last 25-30 years or so. They seal them better and there's less electrolyte involved. But those old rascals are real problem children. It's pretty much guaranteed they're going to be an issue at some point in the near future. You get a geriatric amp, and you're gonna be replacing those things for sure.

 

[DangerousR6]

Leave it off until you can get it to a tech, and tell him the same story. The most likely failure in old amps like that is the filter caps on the power supply go tits-up. They dry up and several things happen. One, they lose capacity so they don't filter like they're supposed to. This usually manifests itself as a severe 60hz hum even when there's no old Strat or Tele plugged in. Taken care of early, no harm done. Two, they get conductive and overheat, which usually leads to three, where either a fuse opens due to excessive current draw or they explode. Amp explosions are NFG, no matter how cool the idea sounds <grin>

Dried up filter caps aren't as much an issue with amps built in the last 25-30 years or so. They seal them better and there's less electrolyte involved. But those old rascals are real problem children. It's pretty much guaranteed they're going to be an issue at some point in the near future. You get a geriatric amp, and you're gonna be replacing those things for sure.

While those are all good points, it's best to start out with something simple like...  Fuses.. :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

I said fuses. But, fuses don't open up just for fun. There's always a reason for it, and it needs to be investigated. On geriatric amps, the primary suspect is always the power supply filter caps.

 

[DangerousR6]

I said fuses. But, fuses don't open up just for fun. There's always a reason for it, and it needs to be investigated. On geriatric amps, the primary suspect is always the power supply filter caps.

Sorry, my bad, didn't see that.... :icon_biggrin:

But you're right, there's something that make them fail. I had a similar problem with my Blue VooDoo, took it to 2 different shops, then got a call both times, "your amp is fixed, just a blown fuse".. I finally took it apart and found two wires that were loose, blowing the fuse.. :doh:

 

[Cagey]

There's very little money in amplifier repair, so you're often dealing with young, inexperienced talent fresh out of school, and that's if you're lucky. They're easily excited and impressed with success, kinda like puppies. "I did something right? It's a Good Thing? OMFG! I'm so awesome! I love this job!" Then they use their ill-gotten gains to go buy a new pack of Pokémon cards to outdo their Star Wars card collection, which has become, like, really lame.

 

[BillyBoy]

LMAO reading your post Cagey!  :toothy12:

Yes, the fuse was blown. Went and got a new one and it works. You got me thinking though Cagey. I just had 4 filter caps replaced, the pots and jacks cleaned and the amp tested. So I'm wondering what it could be. I'm taking it back to have the two prong plug replaced so the guy can check it out again. This guy is supposed to be one of the best. Here's where I took it:

http://www.andrewsamplab.com/index.htm

 

[pabloman]

As a reputible tech I'm surprised why they didn't suggest, much less insist that the chassis be grounded. It's more revenue for the shop and a much better end result for you. :dontknow:

 

[Cagey]

LMAO reading your post Cagey!  :toothy12:

Yes, the fuse was blown. Went and got a new one and it works. You got me thinking though Cagey. I just had 4 filter caps replaced, the pots and jacks cleaned and the amp tested. So I'm wondering what it could be. I'm taking it back to have the two prong plug replaced so the guy can check it out again. This guy is supposed to be one of the best. Here's where I took it:

http://www.andrewsamplab.com/index.htm

Well, it's possible the existing fuse just reached the end of its useful life. The way they work is there's a carefully calibrated bit of wire or foil (and sometimes other stuff) inside that if you try to draw too much current though for too much time, it melts and opens the circuit. If the fuse is sized very close to the normal peak load, it's possible for it to nearly blow every time it's used. That might sound bad, but it's not. You sorta want the thing on the hairy edge so it gives up the ghost very easily. You get more/faster protection that way.

But, that stress can weaken the thing until one day it just says "I'm tired of this crap" and it goes ahead and opens. Hopefully, that's what's happened to you. If so, simply replacing it will return another 40 years of service.

Unfortunately, that's usually just wishful thinking. Real life is often a bit more harsh. Fuses open because they've been asked to allow more current flow than the circuits are designed for. So, they give up their life to save the life of the circuit, or to warn you that the circuit has become malevolent and determined to burn you out of house and home, or worse yet, burn your favorite bar down.

Hate when that happens.

If you look at the schematic for a Vibro-Champ, you'll see the fuse is in the primary of the power transformer, which is typical. The problem (from a technician's POV) is, it means almost anything can go wrong and the fuse will open.

So, you go by the numbers. People love to trash statistics (even though they use them constantly in everyday life without realizing it), but they can save you a lot of time by allowing you to do a certain amount of component profiling. That's why I picked on your filter caps first. But, it could be the power transformer, or the rectifier tube, or something past the power supply that's asking for more power than it's supposed to. So... good luck.

 

[mayfly]

As a reputible tech I'm surprised why they didn't suggest, much less insist that the chassis be grounded. It's more revenue for the shop and a much better end result for you. :dontknow:

Ditto. That line cord is fundamental. Also- did he give you the old parts?  Just so you can see he actually did something. I always do this when working on amps.

 

[fdesalvo]

An open fuse usually indicates a power tube failue.  That said, if the electrolytics' cases aren't bloated or disfigured, it's *probably* ok to fire her up and play.  the rule of thumb is to replace them every 10 years, but as Cagey said, newer components have a much longer service life.  Awesome score! :guitarplayer2:

 

[BillyBoy]

No, the guy didn't give me any parts back. The funny thing is that after I brought it back from the shop it seemed like it was not grounded at all. It had a hum and when I put my hands on and off the strings the hum went up and down. I thought I really needed to get that three prong plug. Then after the fuse blew and I replaced it, it now has no hum at all.

It sounds freaking great. I sure hope it lasts. I love this thing. Forget about the $2500 boutique amps. This is the tone. At least at home. Now I'm wondering if I should get a reverb pedal for it and what kind to get. I didn't need one with my Blues Deluxe.  :cool01:

 

[bagman67]

Now I'm wondering if I should get a reverb pedal for it and what kind to get. I didn't need one with my Blues Deluxe.  :cool01:

You can pick up an Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail used pretty cheap, and they do a pretty fair job.  But there's lotsa options that will set you back more if you want to spend the dough...

 

[BillyBoy]

Well, I took it in to get the chord replaced and checked out to figure out the reason for the blown fuse. Turns out I had a bad output tube.

As for reverb pedals, I have thought about the Holy Grail. I was also thinking about this one:

http://vanamps.com/products/sole-mate/

 

[Cagey]

Which chord did you get replaced - the Dmaj or the dreaded G# augmented? <grin>

I listened to the demos and those VanAmp units sound ok, if a little overbearing. But, some people like that sort of thing so my biggest concern with them would be the packaging. It's like they thought "If we can't make something inconvenient, let's at least put it in harm's way." I mean, power and I/O on the front? And knobs next to footswitches? That thing's gonna be a non-stop maintenance problem.

If I had to use a stomp box, I think I'd go back to the Holy Grail units. Or, I'd get a MIDI board and use it to control a Lexicon unit like the MX200. Now that's some pretty reverb/delay/flange/etc. and it's not expensive.

 

[BillyBoy]

Which chord did you get replaced - the Dmaj or the dreaded G# augmented? <grin>

I listened to the demos and those VanAmp units sound ok, if a little overbearing. But, some people like that sort of thing so my biggest concern with them would be the packaging. It's like they thought "If we can't make something inconvenient, let's at least put it in harm's way." I mean, power and I/O on the front? And knobs next to footswitches? That thing's gonna be a non-stop maintenance problem.

If I had to use a stomp box, I think I'd go back to the Holy Grail units. Or, I'd get a MIDI board and use it to control a Lexicon unit like the MX200. Now that's some pretty reverb/delay/flange/etc. and it's not expensive.

No, it was that A6. That thing has been giving me all kind of trouble!  :toothy12:

I see what you mean about the VanAmp. What do you think about:

  http://www.neunabertechnology.com/gear/wet-reverb

 

[Cagey]

It's clean and quiet, which counts for a lot. It's packaged well, which is also important. I think it sounds better than the VanAmp, but I'm a poor judge. To me, reverb should be like a woman's facial makeup - you're not supposed to know it's there. It's to create an ambiance, not an identity. That is, if you can hear it being used, it's being abused. But, since it's a demo, they may be overdoing it to make it stand out. A unit you'd have control over you might back off a bit.