Neck Finish?

add4

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Hello everybody,
I've just discovered Warmoth and i'm thinking of building a tele very soon. I'm very excited about this.
I have one question about the finish on the neck: Does the neck haveto be finished? most of the necks in the showcase are finished with vintage tint which give them that yellowish look that i don't find on fender necks usually. Which makes me wonder if the classical fender necks are finished at all.
I would be happy to have more information about that and how finish affects the sound and durability of the neck.
Thanks in advance
Add
 
Maple, Mahogany, and Koa necks require a hard finish (Tru-oil counts as a hard finish despite the name)

Necks that don't need a finish include but are not limited to: Wenge, Bubinga, Rosewood, Kingwood, Ebony, Purpleheart
I believe all of us on the board strongly believe that the aforementioned woods NOT to have a finish, though it's still up to you.
 
as mentioned there are woods that need a finish and those that do not

if you go to the neck options area, and open the neck woods, there is a chart under each wood description that tells if it needs a finish or not.
 
If you want to go with a maple neck I would suggest getting a satin finish. It's the closest feel to having a raw one. Or you could go with canary (doesn't need a finish), which has a similar appearance to maple and many say a similar sound.
 
You don't have to have a "vintage tint". You can get clear coats, glossy or not. "Vintage tint" just adds that amber color you describe that makes them look a lot older than they really are. Or, some people just prefer that color, as I do. For instance, to me a clear maple looks a bit stark, but tinting it gives it some character. Or, I have a Koa neck I had a vintage tint finish put on so it would match the tiger eye finish I had on the body. More of an artistic touch than any nod toward ancient guitars that don't play worth a tinker's damn.

Then, as has been mentioned, you don't necessarily have to have any finish at all. There are a number of exotic woods that look and feel great to play "raw". Doesn't change the tone at all, but it definitely changes the feel, and it saves you $100+ bucks.
 
The neck builder automatically indicates whether your wood selection requires a finish, by giving you the option to select one.  For example for a Pau Ferro/Goncallo neck I ordered, the option to finish the neck wasn't even there. 
 
add4 said:
I have one question about the finish on the neck: Does the neck haveto be finished? most of the necks in the showcase are finished with vintage tint which give them that yellowish look that i don't find on fender necks usually. Which makes me wonder if the classical fender necks are finished at all.
I would be happy to have more information about that and how finish affects the sound and durability of the neck.
Thanks in advance
Add

The classical Fender necks were finshed in Nitrocellulose.  That finish is very thin and actually shrinks over time.  It is not UV proof, so some of the dark grain of Maple can become darker with UV exposure.  The finish can also yellow.  Fender hasn't done Nitro finishes for some time.  Warmoth's Satin neck finishes are done in Nitrocellulose, and they offer it in Clear and Vintage Tint.  Their gloss neck finishes are also available in Clear and Vintage Tint also, but aren't Nitro. 
 
Thanks to you all for your help.
My question mostly came from the fact that on the warmoth site, all the finished showcase neck are in vintage tint. But i now noticed than most unfinished necks have an option to let you choose the finish to apply on it before it is sent.
Same goes for bodies .. it seems is it possible to ask to humbucker cavities on a showace classic telecaster body at no additionnal cost.. am i right?

So the question becomes unfinished raw wood or satin maple for the neck? and i guess that's a question of taste... :) never tried an unfinished neck before..
thanks to you all for your input!

 
add4 said:
Same goes for bodies .. it seems is it possible to ask to humbucker cavities on a showace classic telecaster body at no additionnal cost.. am i right?
Yep
 
add4 said:
Thanks to you all for your help.
My question mostly came from the fact that on the warmoth site, all the finished showcase neck are in vintage tint. But i now noticed than most unfinished necks have an option to let you choose the finish to apply on it before it is sent.
Same goes for bodies .. it seems is it possible to ask to humbucker cavities on a showace classic telecaster body at no additionnal cost.. am i right?

So the question becomes unfinished raw wood or satin maple for the neck? and i guess that's a question of taste... :) never tried an unfinished neck before..
thanks to you all for your input!

A lot of guys like the unfinished raw exotics for feel.  Keep in mind due to the characteristics of Maple, it requires a hard finish.  Warmoth can finish it or you can do it yourself and their 2 year warranty is satisfied.  The other part of it is that as far as wood varities on a guitar, it's the prevailing opinion of most forum members that the neck wood and amount of it is the biggest "tonewood" on the guitar.  So, if you like the sound of Maple, then go Maple.  The raw, unfinished exotic wood necks have sound characteristics of their own as well.  Canary is going to be the raw exotic that will most resemble and sound like Maple, and no finish required.
 
Hey Gregg, since we are on the subject how does that warranty apply to a neck that Warmoth will not finish, like goncallo?  Oh crap, the link already answered my question. :sign13:
 
Firebird said:
Hey Gregg, since we are on the subject how does that warranty apply to a neck that Warmoth will not finish, like goncallo?  Oh crap, the link already answered my question. :sign13:
:icon_thumright:
 
Ok, so i'm back in the warmoth wook options for the neck.
thinking about maybe a less classical combination than maple/rosewood, and the first question i have in mind is: in what proportion does the wook of the neck back and fingerboard change your tone?
if i choose a mahoghany neck back, with an ebony fingerboard, do i have a slightly warmer, or slightly brighter neck? (not that i was thinking about this combination, but that's the most extreme example i could think of)
Thanks for helping me again :p
 
add4 said:
Ok, so i'm back in the warmoth wook options for the neck. thinking about maybe a less classical combination than maple/rosewood, and the first question i have in mind is: in what proportion does the wook of the neck back and fingerboard change your tone?

27.963%. Or, maybe it's 59.332%. Or, maybe nobody knows. It's never been quantified exactly, and even if it had, 20 different pieces of the same species of wood would have 20 different effects. That's why you can keep pulling Strats off the wall at the local distributor and they'll all sound slightly different even though they all have alder bodies and maple necks with rosewood 'boards. You hear stories all the time about "The One That Got Away". Many of us have had at one time or another a guitar that just "spoke" to us. It's the result of the 57 (or is it 75?) different variables involved with the guitar's tone all reaching some synergy that just works for us.

But, in general, the harder the fingerboard wood, the brighter the sound, and vice-versa. Also, the heavier the body/neck wood, the more sustain you get, while lighter woods will get you more resonance and "character".

Keep in mind you can filter out frequencies you don't want/need with the tone controls on the guitar and amp, but it's difficult to create them electronically if they don't exist mechanically. In other words, you can roll off the highs on a bright guitar if you need to dull it down, but you can't get highs out of an intrinsically dull guitar.
 
For sure there is no exact science to it.  For my neck I decided to do the same sort of thing, build a Fender, but with a non-traditional neck.  I may be wrong in my thinking, but through a little research I chose a goncallo neck with a pau ferro fretboard combined with a chambered swamp ash body.  The ash is a given, but the goncallo closely resembles the strength of maple, but with a slightly warmer tone.  The pau ferro is even warmer still, but much brighter than rosewood.  From what I have found that neck combination is tried and true on its own merit, but compared to a traditional solid maple or rosewood/maple combination, it's tone character should fall in a similar range, but still be unique in tone, exotic in appearance.
 
Still on the same topic, Do unfinished necks resonate much more? i mean THAT much more? i alway liked guitars to 'react' to my playing and often wondered if i found my main guitar 'cold' because it is basically is covered by 3 inches of hard finish on the whole neck and body (ibanez AS 93).
Is that feeling of a guitar being 'alive' to your playing the result of unfinished necks? if that is so, i will definately try an unfinished neck.
thinking of going for canary/ebony or Goncalo Alves/Pau Ferro ..
i would like to make a tele but i often find the sound too thin when i play them. so i thought: swamp ash body, Goncalo Alves/Pau Ferro neck to get more mediums, humbuckers.
Any reaction to that idea?
i'm just thinking about it at the moment.. considering choices before a first build.
thanks in advance for your input
 
let me ask, how large of frets do you use and do your fingers actually touch the fretboard?

I love to hear these guys who claim they love the feel of unfinished wood and they use JUMBO frets and never touch wood.

having read the latest copy of guitar such and such magazine they thought it was cool to discuss it.

I do not even consider finish, it is tone I want and that comes from the type of wood, not the finish on it. Currently it is stylish to discuss finish and coats of finish, but for the last 60 years it was Maple or Rosewood? It was a tone thing. Now we are flooded with wood options and suddely we are discussing the difference between poly and nitro. Now if  you remember the guitars we all go gaga over, those vintage numbers from the 50s and 60s, they all had thick nitro finishes on them, so why suddenly are finishless options the way to capture those tones or the feel of those instruments.

 
Anyone ever analogized wood to anything else?  If you've ever cooked with jalapenos, I would liken it to that.  Jalapenos are supposed to be hot, but I've had weak and strong one.  Some were so weak you could eat the thing whole.  Some were so strong, you wouldn't want to even handle it.

Wood variables with guitar building are like that.  Woods varieties each have a certain characteristics that they are known for and chosen in builds for.  However, it is not an exact science.  There are bright pieces of mahogany and warm pieces of maple.  Even at a local Guitar Center, 2 identical Strats with the same woods and finish don't sound identical, nor do the Les Pauls. 

To make this relavent, fretboard and neckwood relationships might be 40-60, 60-40, or 25-75.  Depends on that particular one in your hands at the time.
 
Jusatele said:
let me ask, how large of frets do you use and do your fingers actually touch the fretboard?

I love to hear these guys who claim they love the feel of unfinished wood and they use JUMBO frets and never touch wood.

Few fretboards are finished; typically only maple, so fret size preference is a different issue. The desire for the feel of raw wood is on the neck meat itself. For some, it's simply a preference. For others, perspiration and/or skin tone issues along with playing style make different texture surfaces work better than others. Personally, I have no preference or physical problems. I can go from a high-gloss neck to raw wood without issue. But, that's just me.

Jusatele said:
I do not even consider finish, it is tone I want and that comes from the type of wood, not the finish on it. Currently it is stylish to discuss finish and coats of finish, but for the last 60 years it was Maple or Rosewood? It was a tone thing. Now we are flooded with wood options and suddely we are discussing the difference between poly and nitro. Now if  you remember the guitars we all go gaga over, those vintage numbers from the 50s and 60s, they all had thick nitro finishes on them, so why suddenly are finishless options the way to capture those tones or the feel of those instruments.

Finish is important, but in different ways. Along with the species of wood and instrument design, the finish will affect how an acoustic guitar sounds. On an electric, the wood species will have some effect on tone and response, but the finish really only affects feel, appearance, and durability. Tone is off the table. But, the respected opinions come from the respected luthiers, and are repeated ad nauseum by the pretenders even where they don't apply. Real luthiers don't generally work on electric guitars any more than real computer programmers work on web pages. Entirely different skill sets and considerations.

A large number of players (and the marketing weenies who want to separate them from their money) will believe anything you tell them if you can even half-assed justify it, and almost the only justification they really need is that something is what a highly-respected player uses or prefers. If they want or need technical support for your claim, find an expert and ask some leading questions to get the answers you want, and Poof! You've got a "superior" product, endorsed by unimpeachable thousand-mile experts.

Since they've invented catalyzed polyurethane, there's little reason to use nitrocellulose on electric guitars, any more than there's any reason to use ice boxes since they invented refrigerators. The only real reason I'm aware of is that almost anybody can shoot nitro and with the application of enough labor, make it look as good as poly. Setting up to shoot poly is more problematic due to ventilation and cleanliness issues. Plus, you don't get second chances with poly like you do with nitro without a great deal of effort. Screw up poly, and you may be in for an ugly stripping job before you can move forward. Nitro is much more easily repaired. But, if you can do it reliably, poly is substantially less work (and so less cost) to achieve stunning results. Look at Warmoth's bodies. They turn out some gorgeous finished product right from raw lumber and still make money doing it. The major manufacturers all use poly. Only the garage shops use nitro any more, and for the reasons given, not for tone. Tone is just the justification that sells all the added labor it takes to make a fragile finish look right.
 
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