Wilkinson vs Callaham

[Doughboy]

I'm putting together my next Warmoth build & I'm debating about having the usual Wilkinson VS100 that I have on my strats or going with a Callaham.

Having never heard or played a Callaham system, I was wondering if anyone has these 2 trems & how they'd compare the two tone wise, for staying in tune etc.

 

[croquet hoop]

I read someting about it on another forum the other day; the consensus was that the Wilkinson is one of the best 2-point non-locking tremolo, and that the Callaham is one of the best 6-point. So if you're hesitating, it comes down to whether you want a 2- or 6-point tremolo. And who wants to cope with that antique things designed only to be cheap when Leo came up with it? And what's the point of getting an expensive version to correct the shortcomings of the design, when you can get an excellent bridge based on a better design for less money?

If you want to hear arguments about the "sound" of the Wilkinson solid steel baseplate & saddles, compared to the sound of the Callaham's  bent steel thingies, I'm not sure I can help.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Best of both worlds: body routed for American Standard trem, get the Am Std bridge plate and then get the American Standard Upgrade Kit from Callaham which gives you the block, saddles and arm.

 

[6stringer]

Best of both worlds: body routed for American Standard trem, get the Am Std bridge plate and then get the American Standard Upgrade Kit from Callaham which gives you the block, saddles and arm.

No offense, but how is that the best of both worlds? I don't understand...

 

[croquet hoop]

I guess that gives you a 2-point trem (Am Std plate) with improved saddles and block, so you get something better than the stock unit with the classic Strat tremolo look. But you'll have to buy a Fender trem, then the Callaham parts.

The Wilkinson bridge will be cheaper (even from Gotoh) and will still have the advantage of locking, solid steel saddles and a better (adjustable) trem arm, but I understand that some cannot get over its aesthetics (personally, I think it looks great even on a "classic" build, as seen here for instance, but that is a subjective thing). The VS-100 block may be zinc instead of steel or brass, but I don't think I've read any complaints about it.

So on a functional standpoint, I see no reason not to choose the VS-100. Cost and aesthetics are not debatable — it's your purse, it's your tastes. And regarding sound, I think the point is moot — countless great sounding guitar parts have been played and recorded with crappy pingy Strat trems inferior to both designs discussed here.

 

[Kostas]

...And regarding sound, I think the point is moot — countless great sounding guitar parts have been played and recorded with crappy pingy Strat trems inferior to both designs discussed here.

Agree, a great player can get a plywood guitar and a solid state amp to sound great. But when you make a custom guitar you want to use the "best" parts you can afford.

These two tremolos are different aesthetically & functionally, there are people who swear on both of them. Personally I don't like the VS100 aesthetically that's why I didn't use it on my strat and I wouldn't put a 6-point trem when 2-point tremolos are available. I'm going to suggest a third option, the Gotoh two point tremolos: 510-BS1, 510-FE1, 510-SF1. You have a choice of saddles & block, classic looks and Gotoh's quality. The 510 series is very good and I'm glad they have not replaced it.

 

[croquet hoop]

Agree, a great player can get a plywood guitar and a solid state amp to sound great. But when you make a custom guitar you want to use the "best" parts you can afford.

We both agree on this; I was just saying that "best" is hard to define when it comes to how a tremolo "sounds", and that at this level of quality (Gotoh VS-100/510 vs Callaham) it's hardly a discriminating factor anymore.

 

[stubhead]

I think user testimony is pretty universal: everybody who spends a bunch of money on stuff loves they way they sound when they sit in front of their amp and twank away. As I understand the 6-point vs. 2-point arguments, the 2-point is more precise and controllable, i.e. returns to center pitch better, but is "metallic"; but the 6-point is warmer and woodier, having more of a "real strat" sound. Scott Henderson (who plays a Suhr "Strat") and Julien Kasper (who plays a D'Pergo "Strat") make this argument. Personally, I have never heard anything out-of-tune but with such great tone it sounded better than something else in-tune. The only people I have heard use whammies in such a way that I wanted to learn what they were doing, which was hit precise pitches with the bar, are Jeff Beck, who plays a stock Fender two-point (but Mr. Beck undoubtedly gets "Good Fenders"), and Steve Vai, who plays ghost-built "Ibanezes" with whatever they're doing to Floyds these days.

 

[croquet hoop]

and Steve Vai, who plays ghost-built "Ibanezes" with whatever they're doing to Floyds these days.

Actually, he's always used the Edge trem, which is 25 years old and just a slight variation on the classic FR design. Same for Joe Satriani I think. They never switched to subsequent variants of the trem.

Sorry Doughboy, back to the original discussion.

 

[Cagey]

Callaham is basically in the business of providing high-quality replacement parts for less-than-ideal designs. In other words, turd-polishing. If you must use a "vintage" part, then they're the guys to buy it from. It'll cost you, but it'll be the best piece of crap you can buy. If it's important that you maintain an appearance, then that might be the way to go. If you want something that will work well, then you need to catch up to at least 1981 and get a Wilkinson.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

No opinion on sonic differences, but the Wilkinson stuff seems to be in the business of getting the job done well with good materials and a good design and not costing more than it should.  The Callaham stuff seems more directed at vintage specific, boutique upgrades, as well as vintage style retrofits for more modern pieces, at boutique prices.

 

[Doughboy]

Callaham is basically in the business of providing high-quality replacement parts for less-than-ideal designs. In other words, turd-polishing. If you must use a "vintage" part, then they're the guys to buy it from. It'll cost you, but it'll be the best piece of crap you can buy. If it's important that you maintain an appearance, then that might be the way to go. If you want something that will work well, then you need to catch up to at least 1981 and get a Wilkinson.

Cagey, you make a great point. It's not the 70s & I need to get that 'vintage tone can only be gotten with vintage gear' crap out of my head, so Wilkinson it is.

 

[Dan025]

better materials/"quality" goes to callaham. the parts are beautiful and will sound great. better design and maybe ergo goes to wilky. the callaham has/or aleast is available with vintage spacing, if you are into that sort of thing. but vintage spacing can cause the e strings to be too close to the fretboard edge unless you go with a narrow nut. it's still close though. play a real vintage fender and if you like it better than a modern one, then a callaham is the best part for the job. but if you are like the majority of the world you want the strings closer together then you would also benifit from the knife edge 2 point mounting system of a modern bridge. callaham tries to stay too close to the vintage pre-cbs parts and band aids them. i can't figure out why they modify dimensions on the saddles and forgo the "Fender" logos but then want to retain the small diameter tremelo bar. they improved the bar and the block to reduce breakage but that's not the point. they went through lengths to improve the bridge without changing things over to the industry standard bar size which is stronger, keeping a smaller bar is really only cosmetic but they didn't completely replicate all the visual of the original either. some people want tradition and that's great but why only go half way?

 

[croquet hoop]

Because later they'll have a reason to sell a new improved version of what they've been selling for years as "the best possible thing ".

(I'm just being cynical, I have no reason to think Callaham would do that. But it's a standard industry practice.)

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Best of both worlds: body routed for American Standard trem, get the Am Std bridge plate and then get the American Standard Upgrade Kit from Callaham which gives you the block, saddles and arm.

No offense, but how is that the best of both worlds? I don't understand...

Best of Wilkinson world: two-point design with the inherent stability that entails
Best of Callaham world: heavy steel block, traditional looks, non-wobbly arm

I massively prefer the looks of the American Standard tremolo to the Wilkinson (I don't like the strip of visible paint between bridge and pickguard with the Wilky), and mechanically they're pretty identical. So the above is what I've done, although I don't use the Callaham saddles, I use Graph Tech String Saver Classics instead (pictured on this guitar on the left)

 

[Great Ape]

Now, I ain't no 'vintage snob', or I guess I would've spent my $$$ on 2/3rds of a vintage Strat instead of all these superior-playing Warmoth pieces. Don't get me wrong--there is undeniable magic in some vintage stuff...anyway, MY 'vintage' had my awareness of this gear at a time when 'vintage' was all there was. Good, bad, or indifferent, my visual orientation is firmly rooted in the 6-screw trem era...and since I play blues, and use a trem maybe once every 7 or 8 days :icon_biggrin:, I'm not real concerned with all the little tweaks involved in trying to attain tuning stability with the admittedly dodgy thing. I use the 6-screw vintage bridge because it's stable enough, works well enough (for my purposes), and--equally important to me, it keeps my strats looking like I want a strat to look! Appearance preferences are totally within the realm of the subjective, of course, and there's no accounting for taste, so I'm not tryin' to convince anybody of anything. The 2-point trems I've used have a 'softer' feel, and do indeed return to pitch far better than the vintage units...I don't think tone is an issue with 2 vs 6 point trems--that's WAY more down to neck, pickups, and amp--so I'd have to say that the choice of bridges would come down to how much you use it, what level of 'performance' you want from it, and what pleases you aesthetically. Somebody shut me up now! Go for it, whatever IT may be!  :icon_thumright:   

 

[Wolfie351]

having the usual Wilkinson VS100 that I have on my strats

That's the only statement I needed to hear to cast my vote, why build the same guitar you already have?  If I were to have one guitar, it would be a Wilkinson with locking tuners and a quality nut...no question.  I'm not a vintage guy by any stretch of the imagination, but I certainly have a traditional Strat in my arsenal and I wouldn't dream of trying to "improve" it with Callaham parts.  And, to be honest, in 30+ years of playing, I've never had a problem with a Fender 6-hole trem.  Any stability or tuning issue I've seen had been traced to a low quality nut or poor setup.  When I got my first PRS in 1990, I ditched every Floyd Rose I had and thrashed (literally, those were my thrash days) on that 6-hole trem for years with zero issues and could play an entire set without re-tuning.  Do I prefer a 2 post?  Yup  Are Wilkinsons ugly?  Big yup.  Are 6 hole trems crap?  Nope  Is this just my opinion?  Yup

 

[pabloman]

I didn't see any mention of the Mann-Made trem. To me that is best of both worlds. High dollar but super classy. :dontknow:

 

[Kostas]

I didn't see any mention of the Mann-Made trem. To me that is best of both worlds. High dollar but super classy. :dontknow:

Back in 2007 when I assembled my Warmoth strat it was my tremolo of choice. I emailed him a couple of times and I looked for dealers but I heard nothing so I moved on. I have experience witn all Mann-Made tremolos in strat guitars. There was a Greek Warmoth dealer in the late 90's/early 00's and he had assembled beautiful guitars with quality parts. He had put both Mann-Made tremolos (the "PRS" and the Fender looking) and both worked great. Good products but a company needs to communicate with customers, if you don't answer the phone or emails I just move on.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I like the feel of the Mann Made stuff.  I've never been a fan of the bent saddles.